Jonathan Edwards
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
I think that may be because they cannot move so they cannot test their semicircular canal and otolith function by finding differences on movement. The organ is likely to accommodate when static.
Blog: "Scuba diving in the sea makes my LongCOVID symptoms/PEM almost disappear. For the third time."
- Thread starter Mij
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I think that may be because they cannot move so they cannot test their semicircular canal and otolith function by finding differences on movement. The organ is likely to accommodate when static.
ChronicallyOverIt
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
Ahh my old AST-1 training coming in handy.
AN avalanche can take you 1000’s of meters with hundreds of pounds of snow on top of you. Have you ever seen a skier tamahok down a run? They look like an axe being thrown down a hill. Now imagine that with 1000lb of snow on top and zero visibility. It’s impossible to hold orientation. This plus avalanches mostly happen on steep hills above 35 degrees.
The spit thing is mostly a myth, if you’re so far buried and upside down you won’t be able to move. Spitting isn’t going to help, the snow will hold you down you won’t be able to dig yourself out even if you knew which way was up. If you can dig yourself out and move enough to see your spit you’re near the top and probably don’t need to spit to see where you’re at.
I think generally people consider severe long covid = mild ME/CFS. So moderate long covid is still too mild to be considered ME/CFS
MrMagoo
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
Really? I hadn’t heard this.
It's how the private clinic I go to considers/uses it, and I have seen people online use the same scale. But no idea if there is anything "official" about it..
Venicequeenf
Established Member (Voting Rights)
Being in the cool water (not swimming, but just being inside) made me also feel much better (at least when I was moderate) which is probably due to the high compression being good for my strong POTS, and maybe the cool water (20-25 deg C) calming the ANS
MrMagoo
Senior Member (Voting Rights)
Genuinely wasn’t aware and that’s good to know. It also explains why some LC people are being so certain they don’t have ME/CFS and some say they have both.
nafione
Established Member (Voting Rights)
The inner ear functions like a gyroscope/accelerometer, but like all gyroscopes the inner ear is subject to drift or error which accumulates over approximately 30 seconds in our case. Our orientation in space relies on occasional updates from other sensors (our eyes mostly) to correct for drift/error in the gyro (inner ear). 2 problems in an avalanche: you're probably tumbling, which is enough to fool any but the most sophisticated sensor, plus you lose visual reference for long enough that the inner ear loses its calibration. The problem is well understood in both manned and unmanned flight.
As for speculation why diving might help Mr. "I have PEM but it's definitely not me/cfs" increased partial pressure of o2 is another possibility. Breathing nitrox at those depths increases the partial pressure nearly 5 fold versus being on the surface breathing air, or equivalent to breathing pure o2 on the surface. He says the effect of diving is better than oxygen therapy at home fwiw.
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nafione
Established Member (Voting Rights)
As far as the physics of circulation, I suspect immersion would relieve stress on the circulatory system. Underwater, the pressure change with elevation is the same both inside and outside our bodies, which means the circulatory system doesn't have to compensate for orientation.
However, based on geometry I estimate laying flat would relieve about 90% as much orthostatic stress as being immersed, and most of us recognize laying flat is less tiring.
He acknowledges that equivalent or greater increases in o2 partial pressure don't cause the benefit.
Next he discusses the mammalian dive reflex, which is weak in adult humans and associated with cold water. He's wearing a t-shirt underwater, which means the water is very warm, certainly over 25c. His mask covers his nose and he is breathing 0% humidity gas, so the nerves inside the nose that detect immersion are probably not being activated.
He continues by speculating about vagus activation and parasympathetic shift...
I'm not buying any of that, but if others have noticed something similar with diving, maybe I'll have to dust my gear off. It's also plausible this person has a mild or relapsing remitting condition and they feel better on vacation.
However, based on geometry I estimate laying flat would relieve about 90% as much orthostatic stress as being immersed, and most of us recognize laying flat is less tiring.
He acknowledges that equivalent or greater increases in o2 partial pressure don't cause the benefit.
Next he discusses the mammalian dive reflex, which is weak in adult humans and associated with cold water. He's wearing a t-shirt underwater, which means the water is very warm, certainly over 25c. His mask covers his nose and he is breathing 0% humidity gas, so the nerves inside the nose that detect immersion are probably not being activated.
He continues by speculating about vagus activation and parasympathetic shift...
I'm not buying any of that, but if others have noticed something similar with diving, maybe I'll have to dust my gear off. It's also plausible this person has a mild or relapsing remitting condition and they feel better on vacation.
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nafione
Established Member (Voting Rights)
Interesting. I've noticed that commercial divers repeatedly acknowledge that they age rapidly. Many attribute it to the stresses of long laborious days without rest but increased oxidation sounds quite plausible too.