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Biological markers evaluated in randomized trials of psychological treatments for depression: a systematic review & meta-analysis (2019) Cristea et al

Discussion in 'Other health news and research' started by JohnTheJack, Mar 31, 2019.

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  1. JohnTheJack

    JohnTheJack Moderator Staff Member

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    I haven't looked at this, but it sounds interesting and relevant.

    It is accepted by the CBT-GET promoters that there are biological changes in patients with ME. A key part of their argument has always been that psychotherapy can bring about or reverse biological changes.

    Here is a study that finds no support that biomarkers are related to psychotherapy outcome across 51 trials. And in an area where it is generally accepted that psychotherapy is helpful.

    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0149763419300247

     
    JohnTheJack, Mar 31, 2019
    #1
    ladycatlover, andypants, Mithriel and 31 others like this.
  2. Hoopoe

    Hoopoe Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This study is very bad news for psychogenic illness models.
     
    Hoopoe, Mar 31, 2019
    #2
    andypants, 2kidswithME, Simone and 12 others like this.
  3. ME/CFS Skeptic

    ME/CFS Skeptic Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Interesting review, thanks for posting this. In ME/CFS, there have been studies that claimed CBT improves cortisol respons or grey matter volume, but these did not use a control condition, so very misleading.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2019
    ME/CFS Skeptic, Mar 31, 2019
    #3
    andypants, Simone, obeat and 10 others like this.
  4. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Which is good news for sick people everywhere. Bit weird that a segment of the medical profession would be a force for harm, but here we are.
     
    rvallee, Mar 31, 2019
    #4
    andypants, Simone, Sean and 4 others like this.
  5. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Really? Widely believed? Why would people believe such a thing? This is in the same realm as believing in fairies or astrology. It's not as if this were something that would merit some, I don't know, testing?! You know, show your work, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and all that.

    I get it, being nervous can make your heart go faster, your hands sweaty, but this is on a whole other level.

    Ugh. :sick::banghead:
     
    rvallee, Mar 31, 2019
    #5
    andypants, DigitalDrifter, Inara and 6 others like this.
  6. DokaGirl

    DokaGirl Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Thank you to these researchers. Not at all intending to disparage them, but believing that "psychotherapy changes biology", is total bunk. I understand, this does not appear to be the position these authors are taking. If I read the abstract correctly, these investigators found little evidence that psychotherapy changes biology. If one believes in the magic of therapy changing physiology, might as well believe in the magic of fairy dust.
     
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2019
    DokaGirl, Mar 31, 2019
    #6
    andypants, 2kidswithME, Inara and 5 others like this.
  7. DokaGirl

    DokaGirl Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Ha! I see @rvallee, we are on the same track: belief in psychotherapy changing biology/ belief in magic and fairy dust!:)
     
    DokaGirl, Mar 31, 2019
    #7
    Simone, rvallee and MEMarge like this.
  8. JohnTheJack

    JohnTheJack Moderator Staff Member

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    JohnTheJack, May 18, 2019
    #8
    MEMarge, ladycatlover, Hutan and 8 others like this.
  9. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    All science is very bad news for psychogenic illness models.
     
    rvallee, May 18, 2019
    #9
    andypants, JohnTheJack, obeat and 1 other person like this.
  10. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Say it ain't so. Who knew relying on a dogmatic belief was a bad idea?

    This is seriously embarrassing. This whole field is uselessly inept.
     
    rvallee, May 18, 2019
    #10
    andypants, JohnTheJack and Hutan like this.
  11. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Thanks. For those not wanting to read the blog, this is probably a handy summary:

     
    Esther12, May 19, 2019
    #11
    andypants, ME/CFS Skeptic, JohnTheJack and 3 others like this.
  12. duncan

    duncan Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This is just a retrospective. A faint whiff of old poop.
     
    duncan, May 19, 2019
    #12
    andypants and TiredSam like this.

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