1. The latest crowdfunder to support David Tuller's work has opened. To donate click here.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Guest, the two part 'News in Brief' for the week beginning 11th October 2021 is here.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Welcome! To read the Core Purpose and Values of our forum, click here.
    Dismiss Notice

A unifying theory for cognitive abnormalities in functional neurological disorders (2018), Mark J Edwards et al.

Discussion in 'PsychoSocial ME/CFS Research' started by adambeyoncelowe, May 8, 2018.

Tags:
Page 1 of 4
  1. adambeyoncelowe

    adambeyoncelowe Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,395
    http://jnnp.bmj.com/content/early/2018/05/06/jnnp-2017-317823

    I'm not sure if this is the 'biomedical research' MRC claimed to be funding: http://gtr.ukri.org/projects?ref=MR/M02363X/1

    They're similar but not identical. Perhaps an early spin-off? They like to make a meal from bad research, don't they? Faggot fallacies, etc.

     
    adambeyoncelowe, May 8, 2018
    #1
    Simone, Little Bluestem, JohnTheJack and 14 others like this.
  2. Andy

    Andy Committee Member (& Outreach when energy allows)

    Messages:
    14,275
    Location:
    Hampshire, UK
    MUPS by another name?
     
    Andy, May 8, 2018
    #2
    Simone, Little Bluestem, JohnTheJack and 7 others like this.
  3. Daisybell

    Daisybell Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    2,525
    Location:
    New Zealand
    Reading this abstract just made me say ‘oh, f*** off’.
    I’d like to give them the experience and then see how keen they would be to write such offensive twaddle.
     
    Daisybell, May 8, 2018
    #3
    Little Bluestem, Jan, EzzieD and 16 others like this.
  4. James Morris-Lent

    James Morris-Lent Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    903
    Location:
    United States
    Perusing this piece is quite surreal. You see glimmers of lucidity in which the authors appear to understand that they are driveling... and then they drivel vigorously. Like they know their belief system is warped and nonsensical, but they can't yet bear to leave the cult. I wish I could express this better.
    C'mon guys, listen to your doubts... break free! Well, I won't get my hopes up.



    :laugh::thumbup:
     
    James Morris-Lent, May 8, 2018
    #4
    Simone, Zombie Lurker, hinterland and 13 others like this.
  5. adambeyoncelowe

    adambeyoncelowe Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,395
    They're definitely overinterpreting. It's a nonsense study that doesn't make sense.

    @Jonathan Edwards, what do you think, as a scientist? It was all psychobabble to me!
     
    adambeyoncelowe, May 8, 2018
    #5
    Simone, Little Bluestem, EzzieD and 7 others like this.
  6. Cheshire

    Cheshire Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,334
    Some interesting comments on that thread:
     
    Cheshire, May 8, 2018
    #6
    EzzieD, Inara, alktipping and 9 others like this.
  7. adambeyoncelowe

    adambeyoncelowe Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,395
    It's the opposite of Occam's Razor: they're using torturous arguments to prove their theory, when it makes far more sense that objective neurocognitive problems are precisely that.
     
    adambeyoncelowe, May 8, 2018
    #7
    Little Bluestem, EzzieD, Inara and 9 others like this.
  8. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    36,154
    Location:
    UK
    They seem to be inventing yet another 'functional' disorder, this time it's 'functional cognitive disorder', so I guess an alternative would be MUCS - medically unexplained cognitive symptoms. (where MUPS is medically unexplained physical symptoms).

    If we're inventing acronyms, how about medically unexplained cognitive underperformance syndrome (MUCUS). Then they could hold a conference about MUPPETS with MUCUS.

    Seriously though, these 'systematic reviews' we keep seeing are rubbish. Take a bunch of unrelated poorly designed studies on ill defined cohorts of patients using a variety of different subjective cognitive tests - GIGO - garbage in, garbage out.

    Definition of hypothesise = make stuff up.
     
    Trish, May 8, 2018
    #8
    Zombie Lurker, Little Bluestem, Snow Leopard and 20 others like this.
  9. Cheshire

    Cheshire Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,334
    When inconsistency becomes a proof your "unifying theory" is correct, you'd better start it all over again and throw your model in the dustbin...
     
    Cheshire, May 8, 2018
    #9
    Simone, Little Bluestem, Snow Leopard and 14 others like this.
  10. strategist

    strategist Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,858
    These guys need to work on their obfuscation skills. It's too obvious this is just bullshit.
     
    strategist, May 8, 2018
    #10
    Simone, Little Bluestem, Keela Too and 13 others like this.
  11. Amw66

    Amw66 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    4,743
    Seen in context with @Dx Revision Watch being " sacked" and IAPT roll outs, this is potentially more dangerous than would first appear
     
    Amw66, May 8, 2018
    #11
    Simone, Zombie Lurker, Keela Too and 7 others like this.
  12. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    16,346
    Location:
    New Zealand
    I was amazed by this bit too @Cheshire. By this argument, people with peanut allergy must be just making it all up. I mean, 'one minute they're fine and the next minute they are carrying on, claiming they can't breathe and feel sick'.

    How long would the authors have to really listen to people with ME/CFS before they understood that, in all but the most severe cases, cognitive symptoms change over time? Well rested, cognitive function may be fine. After repeated exertion or during PEM, cognitive function may be extremely compromised.

    Yes, it's clear that prejudice is triumphing over intellect. But every now and then, the intellect is visible before dogma just spews all over it.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2018
    Hutan, May 8, 2018
    #12
    Simone, Pechius, Zombie Lurker and 17 others like this.
  13. Luther Blissett

    Luther Blissett Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,678
    or... They might be noticed by third parties who know the patient well and remarked upon as being unusual and out of character you absolute maroons. They might even independently notice a pattern. Is memory perfectionism contagious?

    The fact that a person with arthritis will be effected differently by weather conditions is not a sign that they believe arthritis is secretly controlled by the sky gods.

    [​IMG]
     
    Luther Blissett, May 8, 2018
    #13
    Little Bluestem, Woolie, Inara and 14 others like this.
  14. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    36,154
    Location:
    UK
    Told my daughter (with ME) about this over lunch. In the spirit of helpfulness to those producing this stellar piece of research, she's come up with two new acronyms for those of us who have both cognitive and physical symptoms:
    Medically Unexplained Cognitive & Unexplained Physical Symptoms
    Functional Unexplained Cognitive & Unexplained Physical Symptoms.
     
    Trish, May 8, 2018
    #14
    Simone, 2kidswithME, Snow Leopard and 27 others like this.
  15. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    16,346
    Location:
    New Zealand
    To Trish's daughter - :thumbup:
     
    Hutan, May 8, 2018
    #15
    Simone, Jan, Inara and 10 others like this.
  16. Sean

    Sean Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,751
    Same old, same old.
     
    Sean, May 8, 2018
    #16
    Simone, Little Bluestem, Inara and 10 others like this.
  17. TiredSam

    TiredSam Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    9,687
    Location:
    Germany
    Well I didn't need to read past the first sentence ...
    What does "in the absence of an organic cause" mean? There was an absence of an organic cause for stomach ulcers. Until there wasn't. Get in the lab and do some work instead of hypothesising and making up new mental disorders.
     
    TiredSam, May 8, 2018
    #17
    Simone, Pechius, Zombie Lurker and 24 others like this.
  18. arewenearlythereyet

    arewenearlythereyet Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,092
    E886CC68-A97A-4E4D-8177-D86C2369D14B.jpeg
     
    arewenearlythereyet, May 8, 2018
    #18
    EzzieD, Woolie, Inara and 12 others like this.
  19. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    7,587
    Those would be the ones with the greatest energy demand then.
     
    Barry, May 8, 2018
    #19
    Simone, Little Bluestem, Invisible Woman and 10 others like this.
  20. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,706
    Location:
    UK West Midlands
    They just take the same handful of terms and pull out a new random combination. Shuffling the pack to make it appear like a new idea when it really is just the same old BS. It’s not even old wine in new bottles it is old wine in recycled bottles that haven’t even been washed before refilling.....

    I think @Trish daughter sums it up especially with her second new acronym it is a total one of those
     
    NelliePledge, May 8, 2018
    #20
    Simone, Little Bluestem, Invisible Woman and 17 others like this.
Page 1 of 4

Share This Page