1. Last two days to support David Tuller's work. To donate click here.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Guest, the 'News in Brief' for the week beginning 19th October 2020 is here.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Welcome! To read the Core Purpose and Values of our forum, click here.
    Dismiss Notice

A multiplex serologic platform for diagnosis of tick-borne diseases, 2018, Tokarz, Lipkin et al

Discussion in 'Infections: Lyme, Candida, EBV ...' started by Andy, Feb 16, 2018.

Tags:
  1. Andy

    Andy Committee Member & Outreach

    Messages:
    10,827
    Likes Received:
    78,327
    Location:
    Hampshire, UK
    Open access at https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-21349-2

    Article on this study
    https://www.mailman.columbia.edu/public-health-now/news/first-multiplex-test-tick-borne-diseases

    Edit: Change title of thread to title of paper, add paper abstract and link.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2018
    rvallee, Kitty, Forbin and 16 others like this.
  2. duncan

    duncan Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    918
    Likes Received:
    3,557
    Eh.

    Although it would be good to have a packaged lab approach to helping diagnose multiple TBDs, I am under the impression after reviewing this that it would still only be testing for exposure, which for Lyme at least means we cannot distinguish an active infection. If I am misinterpreting this, please let me know. Regardless, we desperately need better direct testing techniques (which this doesn't appear to be), which applies to Babesia as well.

    I also noticed this doesn't seem to include Bartonella.

    Convenience counts, though, so I suspect it may serve a very real purpose for the average clinician. They will still have to buck the stranglehold the 2T and C6 have on today's Lyme market.
     
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2018
    Kitty, Sarah94, Hutan and 1 other person like this.
  3. Andy

    Andy Committee Member & Outreach

    Messages:
    10,827
    Likes Received:
    78,327
    Location:
    Hampshire, UK
    Edited original post to change title of thread to title of paper, add paper abstract and link.
     
  4. Samuel

    Samuel Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    372
    Likes Received:
    1,896
    think it would be a hit if you or another person who knows about lyme science and politics decided to write:

    "a primer for pwme about lyme and tbd"

    not that i'm asking you or anybody to perform the work, but learning a bit about the epidemiology [with chronology/geography/species], pathogens, symptom profiles, /current/ testing, /current/ politics etc. by a really knowledgeable person i think would have broad appeal in the m.e. community.

    [not limited to lyme; this type of primer would also be great with all sorts of differential diagnoses and political analogues, like gulf war, eds, b12, sle, heavy metal poisoning, etc.]
     
    Kitty, Valentijn and duncan like this.
  5. duncan

    duncan Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    918
    Likes Received:
    3,557
    Lipkin was joined in this effort with Lyme royalty: Adrianna Marques of the NIH, and Brian Fallon of Columbia U's Tick team. That's significant backing.

    I wonder if a clinician ordering the test for a patient can pick and choose those pathogens he wants tested, or if it's a set template, and ALL listed pathogins are tested for each and everytime.

    There are endemic areas where odds are heavy that if a tick bites you, you just wont pick up Lyme...You pick up one or two or three other infections. A test like this could in a single swoop take the guess work out of which tbds you'd been exposed to, bartonella notwithstanding.

    I love that miyamotoi is included, but that smart add imo is offset by not have bartonella, which is arguably the second most prevalent disease next to Lyme - and every bit as difficult to treat.
     
    Kitty, Sarah94, Samuel and 2 others like this.
  6. FMMM1

    FMMM1 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    540
    Likes Received:
    1,975
    *Extract from a recent article by Cort Johnson [http://simmaronresearch.com/2020/01/lipkin-serochip-chronic-fatigue-syndrome/]. Perhaps @Jonathan Edwards could give us his view of the technology Lipkin is using.

    *Simmaron Research (1st January 2020):
    "The Serochip will scan through up to 6 million peptides (small amino acid chains) in an attempt to uncover a hidden pathogen that has been, or still is, tweaking ME/CFS patients’ immune systems. The work could also uncover an autoimmune reaction.

    ME/CFS with its multiple subsets is likely far more complex than AFM, but if Lipkin can find a distinct immune signature or more likely distinct immune signatures in ME/CFS, he might be able to break another mysterious, pathogen triggered disease wide open.

    Lipkin and his team will begin testing the blood or spinal fluid of ME/CFS patients in early 2020."

    @Jonathan Edwards what do you think about this technology?

    http://simmaronresearch.com/2020/01/lipkin-serochip-chronic-fatigue-syndrome/

    "The Serochip will scan through up to 6 million peptides (small amino acid chains) in an attempt to uncover a hidden pathogen that has been, or still is, tweaking ME/CFS patients’ immune systems. The work could also uncover an autoimmune reaction.

    ME/CFS with its multiple subsets is likely far more complex than AFM, but if Lipkin can find a distinct immune signature or more likely distinct immune signatures in ME/CFS, he might be able to break another mysterious, pathogen triggered disease wide open.

    Lipkin and his team will begin testing the blood or spinal fluid of ME/CFS patients in early 2020."
     
    rvallee, MEMarge, Kitty and 1 other person like this.
  7. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    7,604
    Likes Received:
    78,167
    It looks like a waste of time to me, sadly. This sort of mass peptide screening technology seems unlikely to find anything. I suspect they are still stuck in the idea of molecular mimicry, which has got us nowhere and makes no sense.

    What seems tome pity is that there are groups like this with good scientific technical skills but little understanding of how immunological disease works in practice chasing things that we have no real reason to think will ever be found.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020
    TrixieStix, Kitty and FMMM1 like this.
  8. FMMM1

    FMMM1 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    540
    Likes Received:
    1,975
    Interesting thank you for your response.
     
    Kitty likes this.
  9. FMMM1

    FMMM1 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    540
    Likes Received:
    1,975
    Thanks @Jonathan Edwards.
    Here's an extract from Cort's article:
    "The peptide arrays proved the trick. Lipkin found antibodies to EV peptides present in almost 80% of the study participants’ CSF, and zeroed in on a specific enterovirus called EV-D68. Since then a separate study has confirmed his finding. Now some researchers are calling acute flaccid myelitis “the new polio“."

    So, they seemed to get a reasonably consistent result from the peptide array (80% of cerebro spinal fluid samples). So perhaps peptide arrays can identify the presence of antibodies and then you need to identify the target of these antibodies - in this case a virus. I'd prefer to see a published paper, anyone aware of a paper based on Lipkin's work on acute flaccid myelitis - or other relevant paper?
     
    Sarah94 and MEMarge like this.
  10. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    7,604
    Likes Received:
    78,167
    It is very hard to know if there is anything 'consistent' here. Peptide arrays will always appear to give a result. The question is whether it means anything. Cort's reporting of science tends to be uncritical and hyped as you probably know.
     
    TrixieStix, shak8, Sarah94 and 3 others like this.
  11. FMMM1

    FMMM1 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    540
    Likes Received:
    1,975
    Thank you for your reply.
     

Share This Page