1. Sign our petition calling on Cochrane to withdraw their review of Exercise Therapy for CFS here.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Guest, the 'News in Brief' for the week beginning 15th April 2024 is here.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Welcome! To read the Core Purpose and Values of our forum, click here.
    Dismiss Notice

“Lumping” and “splitting” medically unexplained symptoms: is there a role for a transdiagnostic approach? - Chalder/Willis (2017)

Discussion in 'Psychosomatic research - ME/CFS and Long Covid' started by MSEsperanza, Oct 8, 2020.

  1. MSEsperanza

    MSEsperanza Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,857
    Location:
    betwixt and between
    Trudie Chalder & Claire Willis (2017) “Lumping” and “splitting” medically unexplained symptoms: is there a role for a transdiagnostic approach?, Journal of Mental Health, 26:3, 187-191, DOI: 10.1080/09638237.2017.1322187
    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09638237.2017.1322187

    (Open access)

    Haven't read it, just saw it includes a "Proposed matrix: illustrated with fatigue as a transdiagnostic symptom" [for "IBS, CFS, Fibromylagia etc."]

    (Table 2 in the text)
     
  2. Mike Dean

    Mike Dean Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    147
    Location:
    York, UK
    Claire Willis works at the Chronic Fatigue Research and Treatment Unit, London, UK
    I gave up after reading about the "good evidence base" for CBT especially in CFS (ref PACE).
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2020
  3. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    4,602
    I gave up when I saw they were studying ruminants.
     
    Simbindi, ukxmrv, alktipping and 3 others like this.
  4. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,134
    Location:
    Canada
    Isn't this an issue they should have given consideration to decades ago in their research careers?
     
  5. Sean

    Sean Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    7,210
    Location:
    Australia
    is there a role for a transdiagnostic approach?

    No. Certainly not if you are involved.
     
  6. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,134
    Location:
    Canada
    Just had a random thought. Does anyone know if the BPS cabal treat post-polio symptoms as MUS?
     
  7. Woolie

    Woolie Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,918
    There is an extraordinarily frank figure in this paper, it really does reveal exactly what these people believe. Which is refreshing. They usually do such a nice dance around how we "don't really know" and that their proposed treatments take a "pragmatic" approach. But this figure tells it like it is.
    temp.jpeg
     
  8. Hoopoe

    Hoopoe Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    5,255
    People with untreated and significant illness are going to engage in "physical attributions", they're going to have beliefs on what helps and what harms which can be entirely correct ("fear avoidance beliefs"). They're going to have disturbed sleep (which can be interpreted as behaviour and labelled a poor sleep routine). They're going to try and get diagnosed and treated, and if the illness is a serious problems they won't easily give up. They're going to have symptoms that are too intense to just ignore, but that could get them labelled as focusing too much on symptoms (" "symptom focus"). They're of course going to worry as any responsible person would. And so on.

    All these BPS proponents are doing is putting their own misantropic spin on the lives of people struggling with chronic illness. I sometimes think that we need a new term for this because it's the chronic illness equivalent of racism.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
    lycaena, Woolie, Mithriel and 15 others like this.
  9. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    4,602
    I noticed that diagram and thought how impressive were the developments over the years - in the art-work. It says so much. And leaves so much un-said.
     
    Woolie, Mithriel, MSEsperanza and 7 others like this.
  10. Mike Dean

    Mike Dean Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    147
    Location:
    York, UK
    Wessely and White had a gentlemanly "debate" on this in 2004.
    https://www.researchgate.net/publication/8424117_There_is_only_one_functional_somatic_syndrome
    It's their sacred cow, sorry, mandala.
     
  11. Sean

    Sean Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    7,210
    Location:
    Australia
    Reveals far more about what is going on in their heads than in patients' heads.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2020
    ukxmrv, Woolie, cfsandmore and 7 others like this.
  12. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,827
    Location:
    Australia
    I had not yet heard of "rogue representations"

    https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/23311908.2015.1033876
    Brown 2004: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15367081/
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
    ukxmrv, oldtimer, FMMM1 and 1 other person like this.
  13. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,134
    Location:
    Canada
    This is a very accurate and succinct statement of their position. Exactly.

    It's a good explanatory statement for anyone embedded in the psychological position (who are outside the actual cabal of researchers) and who seem incapable of imagining that there may be legitimate reasons for why we reject their BPS views.

    I hope the sentiment of the statement gets taken up and sees a wider viewership.

    And I don't think the chronic illness equivalent of racism or mysogyny or aporaphobia (hatred of the poor) is in any way exaggerated. It is that. They may not consciously be promoting it but that doesn't change what it is.
     
    MEMarge, ukxmrv, Snow Leopard and 3 others like this.
  14. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    12,464
    Location:
    Canada
    This is just a bunch of random concepts with arrows thrown in without sense or reason. It reads exactly like those conspiracy webs that link cow manure and aliens, or whatever. You can link bin Laden to climate change with this approach, it's just someone putting their imagination to paper.

    It's really absurd that this stuff, which should be a career-ender, is taken seriously.
     
    MEMarge, ukxmrv, cfsandmore and 2 others like this.
  15. Hoopoe

    Hoopoe Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    5,255
    It seems to be another way of saying patients imagine a problem where there is none.
     
    MEMarge, ukxmrv, Snow Leopard and 3 others like this.
  16. FMMM1

    FMMM1 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,648
  17. cfsandmore

    cfsandmore Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    206
    Location:
    USA
    I can tell you how this goes when the patient is setting in the chair. I've been there. :banghead:
     
  18. Snow Leopard

    Snow Leopard Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,827
    Location:
    Australia
    You probably laugh through horror films too!
     
    MEMarge, FMMM1 and Mithriel like this.
  19. FMMM1

    FMMM1 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,648
    Yea fair point - I was thinking of adding --- if it were not serious (which it is)!
     
    MEMarge likes this.

Share This Page