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- Bateman says Long Covid can cause immediate PEM, breathlessness etc. I think this is diluting the definition of ME, or at least PEM-ME as opposed to classical Ramsay-ME which did have immediate effects from exercise. Pre-covid the CCC yielded a prevalence of 0.1%...

In my opinion, it's all part of the gaslighting, we all know what they really mean by real, and it's anything but real when it comes to Deteriorative Exertion Intolerance.

@31:00 She starts talking about sacrificing other areas of her life (for example: grocery shopping) to be able to manage the graded activity they were giving her. This is why I think acti-graphy is important in any open label trial.

Where did you get that figure from?

The treatment is consideration to prevent deterioration. What code is there for PEM-ME, or ICC-ME?

Just found a great discussion involving Charles Shepherd and Ellen Goudsmit that's relevant here, I think it demonstrates my point about ME historically being thought of as muscle fatiguability and not PEM or damage from exercise: https://meassociation.org.uk/2011/02/london-criteria-for-m-e/

If he is claiming that the London criteria is properly defined ME, why did the ME Association keep using a pre-covid prevalence figures of 250,000 (nearly 0.4%)? According to the 2014 London criteria (Co-Written by Charles Shepherd) ME affects 1 per 1000 (0.1%). which equates to 67,000 people...

Just looked at that paper and they're using the 2007 NICE guidelines criteria, so anybody with 6 months of chronic fatigue could be included.

They're happy to let everybody conflate the two concepts. I've never seen them mention in their research the harm of conflating ME with idiopathic chronic fatigue. Sharpe said in the intro of the PACE trial that some researchers think ME and CFS are separate illnesses.

See: https://www.s4me.info/threads/who-hijacked-me.28199/ At the moment patients who experience damage from exercise don't have an accurate diagnosis, they are illness misfits. It's what my currant signature means, ME to medical professionals does not mean (and never meant) damage from exercise.

Not viewed the full video so may be I got it wrong but they sure talked about supplements a lot. Edit: This post was originally a thread titled - Bateman Horne Center Pushing Supplements For Long-covid?

https://www.s4me.info/threads/office-of-national-statistics-prevalence-of-ongoing-symptoms-following-coronavirus-covid-19-infection-in-the-uk-updates.20817/page-7#post-482657 That's not necessarily PEM. Were the symptoms delayed? How long did they last? What percent experience LTSE?

I get the feeling that they're not using a strict enough definition of PEM. Some people say they have PEM because they feel a little fatigued or out of breath immediately after going for a walk. It's possible that the term has been hijacked or at least diluted.

What do you think it is then?

I just read the The ME Association's web site and they claim that half of Long Covid patients meet the definition of ME, I couldn't find out which criteria they used. The total figure for was: Those figures seem way too high, it equates 1.86% of the population, nearly 1 in 60, similar to...

@1:00 He pretty much admits to believing in psychosomatic pain. That's a red flag for me.

By placebo do you mean coincidental improvement or genuine efficiency of the power of belief? Because if it's the latter then I'm going have to ask you to cite evidence for that claim.

@5:18 He states that almost all his Fibromyalgia patients met the criteria for CFS which I strongly doubt since Fibromyalgia patients tend to report improving from light exercise where as ME patients deteriorate. See...

I think you mean waste basket diagnosis, basket case would mean mentally ill.

What's the difference?