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  1. poetinsf

    PEM discussion thread - post-exertional malaise

    I use 24hr timer that I got from Amazon for $3. I have one next to my bed, and I punch it whenever I lie down/get up. I'm hoping to automate it with fitbit or other wearables. Plug-ins sound like a good idea.
  2. poetinsf

    PEM discussion thread - post-exertional malaise

    Yep, that's what I've been saying: a black box approach can provide clues about what's inside the box. Actually, that hasn't been my experience. When I'm on the road living in my car, my tolerance boost stays up indefinitely. It's when I return home that I crash before returning to steady...
  3. poetinsf

    PEM discussion thread - post-exertional malaise

    Responding to deleted post about high accuracy in predicting symptoms when doing analysis with regression analysis with various lifestyle variables. 0.85 is absolutely phenomenal. I was getting more like 10-40% range on average. But that was still a lot compared to other model including heart...
  4. poetinsf

    PEM discussion thread - post-exertional malaise

    Responding to deleted post asking if poetinsf has any insights regarding adrenaline. I think I've said this before somewhere, but adrenergic or dopaminergic environment seems to protect me from PEM. Whatever wakes my brain up, including pseudoephedrine and caffeine, seems to help. I remember...
  5. poetinsf

    PEM discussion thread - post-exertional malaise

    Yeah, it's really hard to build a model with all the variables like diet, sensory stimuli and others. Add to that the tolerance variability like you have, it would be next to impossible. No wonder some people think that the PEM triggers are subjective. I'm dealing with the physical exertion...
  6. poetinsf

    PEM discussion thread - post-exertional malaise

    It's probably a whole separate topic. I've been postponing it till I get it to a publishable shape. I'll have to restore it to working form, deposit it in GitHub or something with a paper explaining the model, so that others can test it. It's probably no more than a meaningless hand-waving till...
  7. poetinsf

    PEM discussion thread - post-exertional malaise

    I'm not quite sure what you are asking, but I predict my fatigue level (in terms of TSLD or time spent lying down) and I usually try to stay below 2 hours or less. But I don't always stick to it; I regularly do more (and predict higher fatigue), like going on a biking or taking 20,000 steps in...
  8. poetinsf

    PEM discussion thread - post-exertional malaise

    At the recovery stage I'm in now, I don't need to look back too far to predict my fatigue level; I can predict by what I did today and still be fairly accurate. (In the first pic, you see that the red row that is out of whack from the prediction which constitutes a crash). Before, however, I had...
  9. poetinsf

    PEM discussion thread - post-exertional malaise

    Responding to deleted post saying that calories are inherently an estimation, and not necessarily an indicator of molecular mechanisms. You could be missing the point by focusing too much on molecular level. You can view exertion, or damage from it, at macro level simply as something that you...
  10. poetinsf

    PEM discussion thread - post-exertional malaise

    Allow me to pile on. That PEM is difficult to predict -- because it is complicated with multiple factors -- doesn't have mean it is subjective. When people couldn't predict weather, they thought it was subject to God's whim and prayed. Now we predict weather, often 7 days out with amazing...
  11. poetinsf

    PEM discussion thread - post-exertional malaise

    I don't know why you are so allergic to abstract terms. Can we call it a concept, build a model for it and test? We can always build a model and test.
  12. poetinsf

    PEM discussion thread - post-exertional malaise

    This is what I meant by "the idea of subjective exertion can be positively dismissed by the typical delay of 12-48 hours". I'm not aware of any psychological process that a perceptual "apparent trigger" can actually worsen the symptoms, subjectively or otherwise, after 12-48 hours. So, are you...
  13. poetinsf

    PEM discussion thread - post-exertional malaise

    I wouldn't be surprised if the tolerance/sensitivity is highly variable in some cases. Some people report oscillation between remission and relapse after all. That's an ultimate case of tolerance variability. Your guess is as good as mine as to why. I'm mainly interested in a steady state...
  14. poetinsf

    PEM discussion thread - post-exertional malaise

    But you do need recovery from mental exertion (I know how my mental ability degrades after 1 hour of thinking), and there is no reason to preclude such stress/damage as the possible trigger for PEM. And how hard you think, and how tired you are afterward, got to be proportional to the amount of...
  15. poetinsf

    PEM discussion thread - post-exertional malaise

    There could be several triggers for PEM, with physical exertion being but one. Mental exertion or sensory stimuli could be other. We could take just the physical exertion portion, of it, since that is the simplest to objectify, and then establish the relationship between physical exertion and...
  16. poetinsf

    PEM discussion thread - post-exertional malaise

    Why? A symptom being subjective doesn't mean that the cause of the symptom has to be subjective as well. Your feeling pain because a car ran over you does not mean the weight of the car is subjective. Or the sound of the backfire from the passing vehicle that triggered the PTSD symptom...
  17. poetinsf

    Article: Brain inflammation may be the reason behind muscle fatigue after infection and injury

    Brain immune activation has been linked to age-related fatigue since just about forever Or TBS fatigue. I don't know why they find the link puzzling. What's not proven is the link between peripheral infection and neuroinflammation.
  18. poetinsf

    PEM discussion thread - post-exertional malaise

    Whatever the damage caused by that calorie expenditure is confined in the brain and they'll need to be cleaned up or repaired by the brain immune system. No reason to think that such repair process won't cause PEM.
  19. poetinsf

    PEM discussion thread - post-exertional malaise

    Calories/min, or a model derived from it, as the exertion measure is my hypothesis and I have some evidence though I'm yet to make it public. In any case, the notion of exertion as a subjective concept, at least pertaining to PEM, needs to be dispatched with. We already have fatigue as a...
  20. poetinsf

    PEM discussion thread - post-exertional malaise

    I'll repeat what I said to @Utsikt since I think it is important: PEM is not the consequence of exertion. Rather, it is your low tolerance to the exertion that causes PEM. Hence it is also called exercise intolerance.
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