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Are there probiotics that PWME should avoid?

Discussion in 'Treating the Microbiome' started by Sasha, Nov 17, 2017.

  1. Sasha

    Sasha Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I'm thinking of ones related to lactic acid production but can't remember what they are and how well-established this is...

    Are there any general principles of what probiotics might be good/bad for PWME?
     
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  2. dannybex

    dannybex Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    Yes. Ken Lassesen states that PWME should (in general) avoid l. acidophilus, as they were high in the two studies he uses for his model. Don't have the studies at hand right now, but on this page from 2013 he gives his reasons why, mainly because it lowers the beneficial e.coli, something studies have shown we're low in.

    Here's his page on ME-Pedia which gives a good overview of his model:

    http://me-pedia.org/wiki/Ken_Lassesen's_model
     
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  3. alicec

    alicec Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    I don't know of any that hold up.

    I don't think the studies that Lassesen relies on mean much since the technique used for studying bacterial composition is unable to detect most species. Basically it is a culture based test which is heavily biassed towards anaerobes and species that can be cultured. Yes I know the Henry Butt technique attempts to preserve anaerobes in its collection technique and in this respect it does better than standard CDSAs, but you only have to look at the results obtained to see that it bears little resemblance to what we know is in the gut; most of the strict anaerobes are missing.

    E.coli is not an important gut constituent - it is a very minor component with no particular beneficial effect that I am aware of. Ditto for Lactobacillus.

    Probiotics containing these species can influence the host as they transit through the gut but I haven't seen any evidence that they affect microbiota composition.

    There are lots of anecdotal reports from people have difficulties with various types of probiotics - which types vary with the individual as far as I can see.

    Some people do seem to be sensitive to Lactobacillus-containing probiotics, some aren't (I'm not).

    I think KDM did a small study showing that production of D-lactate might be an issue for some patients. This might be part of the sensitivity problem, or sensitivity to histamine producers might be the thing for others.
     
  4. JaimeS

    JaimeS Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    As I've mentioned in TOF (The Other Forum!) it's not so much the type as when the pill dissolves, in my case. Enteric-coated probiotics seem to be fine. Powders and gel capsules cause pretty serious neuro symptoms for me; the last time I had probiotics in food, my vision went dark in my right eye, and that pupil went unresponsive.

    Pretty dramatic! :eek:

    On the other hand, I take an enteric-coated cap twice a day. For those who are wondering if it ever dissolves, yes; if I don't take it, my digestion starts acting up in two missed doses.
     

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