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Concerns about Cochrane

Discussion in 'Other health news and research' started by Kalliope, Sep 14, 2018.

  1. Kalliope

    Kalliope Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Peter Gøtzsche is crowdfunding to cover legal costs and to support a new Institute for Scientific Freedom

    GoFundME: Scientific freedom

    Peter R. Breggin MD and Ginger Breggin, International Center for the Study of Patient-Oriented Psychiatry write: “Peter Gøtzsche MD is a hero of science and medicine, one of the brave few in history to stand up for scientific truth and freedom rather than for professional and industrial interests. If the Pharmaceutical Empire and professional avarice can stop this honorable man’s work, it will intimidate physicians and scientists throughout the world, greatly setting back genuine scientific inquiry and reform in research and in services. Contributing to Peter Gøtzsche’s lifetime work at this moment in time is a contribution to the future of medical and scientific freedom. They have billions of dollars, but we have Peter Gøtzsche and other brave reformers—and we have right on our side. Contributing to Dr. Gøtzsche’s fund is something you can be proud of, knowing that it will bring positive results for humankind!”
     
    MEMarge, NelliePledge, obeat and 4 others like this.
  2. Sean

    Sean Moderator Staff Member

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    I am a bit wary of Peter Breggin. He seems a mixed bag.
     
    MEMarge and Esther12 like this.
  3. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    There are lots of people to oppose, but so few to support!
     
    Sean likes this.
  4. inox

    inox Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    For our case, it's a bit of luck that these two situations are unraveling at the same time. ME and the GET-paper are probabaly not high profile enough to get Cochrane to step up their COI-game etc. But the GET-paper bubbling to the surface at the same time as this HPV-situation are starting to look not so very good for Cochrane - can't blame it on independent incidences anymore, when strong similarities in fails from such different fields.
     
    MEMarge, ukxmrv, Snowdrop and 3 others like this.
  5. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It's a bit annoying to never hear of the GET review in this controversy since it mirrors a lot of the issues with the HPV review. The problems are even more egregious on some of the points raised. If the concerns were over process, this point should have already been made. It's hard to overcome prejudice and have people care about the undeserving sick...
     
    MEMarge and inox like this.
  6. Kalliope

    Kalliope Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  7. inox

    inox Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    That's really good, on the history, intentions, development and todays differing views on the way foreward.

    One thing that surprised me a bit, it have been long known there are major problems with a big part of their reviews. And yet they managed to be seen as a sort of "gold standard of the gold standard".....?

     
  8. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    That is an interesting quote from 1998. Especially that all problematic conclusions were too favourable. That indicates that something like publication bias affects these reviews - the people who do these reviews are too often enthusiasts for treatments.
     
    Amw66, EzzieD, MEMarge and 8 others like this.
  9. inox

    inox Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It is, and I think it's even stronger within the context of the article, as it goes on to talk about conflict of interests, funding by drug companies etc. It reads as implied that (economic) interests have used Cochrane to strengthen their posistion.

    Not until 2003 did funding of Cochrane reviews or review groups by “commercial sources with financial interests in the conclusions” get banned.

     
    ukxmrv, rvallee, MEMarge and 2 others like this.
  10. inox

    inox Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It took a while to read the whole thing, but it's a really well written and interesting piece - lots of quotes from people on both sides, and gives an insight into some tug wars and internal affairs of Cochrane.

    Caroline Struthers are doing a lot to help pointing out the faulty reviews on ME, this quote is more general, but thought it could be of interest.

     
    Amw66, ukxmrv, rvallee and 7 others like this.
  11. Kalliope

    Kalliope Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    https://twitter.com/user/status/1080919816238555137


    Cochrane members for change
    The first 100 days, a personal account - Jos Verbeek

    It is difficult to say what if anything is different now. Thanks to the support of many Cochrane members, it seems that business will not be continued as usual. That is an achievement.

    Also many people did not like what we did and I found that they were very intimidating. I extensively cited their emails to illustrate what happens when you ask for discussion and debate in Cochrane. The four issues statement was formulated as a point of departure for discussion not as demands that we wanted to be realised immediately. Even that was too much already and considered destructive by some.

    Will things really change? Will there be real member engagement? That would mean that members really get a say in Cochrane policy. For example, that we have real Annual General Meetings where we can discuss and then vote about policies or that we would elect the new Editor in Chief from a number of possible candidates or that we would have lively debates about controversial reviews or methods. Well, it hasn’t even been possible to organise a discussion platform, so it might be that this all will still take years before it is realised. Nevertheless, it feels like a big step to have opened the discussion and it will be very difficult to get the genie back into the bottle. So, there will be more to come in the near future.
     
    Atle, EzzieD, andypants and 10 others like this.
  12. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Does anyone know how Cochrane's CFS reviews fit into that chronology?

    Were things like Larun's published exercise review and the IPD protocol a part of the central executive having more control? A part of an incompetent attempt to raise standards and produce reviews of real interest to patients?

    I guess that it might be impossible for us to know without more info from Cochrane.

    It's a bit annoying that there was no mention of the problems with their CFS work in the BMJ piece.

    Why didn't that lead to years of media coverage presenting people who had nothing to do with the video as anti-science militants?
     
    Snow Leopard, EzzieD, MEMarge and 6 others like this.
  13. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It looks like now anyone can join Cochrane, so patients wanting to try to improve the quality of their work can contribute and vote in any future elections:

    https://community.cochrane.org/organizational-info/resources/support-cet/membership

    https://www.cochrane.org/join-cochrane

    This is something we probably should have been aware of before the last election.

    This Cochrane stuff is so complicated that I'm sure we're missing loads of oportunities to make things better.
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2019
    Hutan, MEMarge, ukxmrv and 11 others like this.
  14. Kalliope

    Kalliope Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  15. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Hutan, inox, rvallee and 2 others like this.
  16. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Citing income growth as first evidence of success is a very weak argument when it has nothing to do with the core mission.

    Over time, institutions adapt to become about preserving themselves and their leadership, even at the expense of their core mission. Great example. "We're rolling in cash" couldn't better exemplify "having lost their way" any clearer.
     
    MEMarge, Sean, Snowdrop and 3 others like this.
  17. Kalliope

    Kalliope Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Inara, Hutan, andypants and 6 others like this.
  18. obeat

    obeat Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    We should have a whip round and buy a dozen to send to our " favourite"
    journalists and doctors!
     
    MEMarge likes this.
  19. Sasha

    Sasha Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    If he wants to get the word out I think he should consider reducing the price of this ebook (not available in paper, though it easily could be) from £22. Ebooks have zero production costs - it seems odd to price this so high when it's essentially a campaigning book.
     
    Hutan, TiredSam, andypants and 4 others like this.
  20. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I don't know. Just because Cochrane are rubbish and he's criticising Cochrane doesn't mean he's good. I think he raises some important concerns about the way Cochrane works, but he also seems to have his own problematic blind spots and biases.
     

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