Impact of COVID-19 & 2021 NICE Guidelines on Public Perspectives Toward ME/CFS: Twitter Analysis, 2025, Khakban et al (Jason Busse)

Discussion in 'Psychosomatic research - ME/CFS and Long Covid' started by Three Chord Monty, May 22, 2025 at 9:19 AM.

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  1. Three Chord Monty

    Three Chord Monty Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Impact of the COVID-19 Pandemic and the 2021 National Institute for Health and Care Excellence Guidelines on Public Perspectives Toward Myalgic Encephalomyelitis/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome: Thematic and Sentiment Analysis on Twitter (Rebranded as X)

    Iliya Khakban 1, Shagun Jain 1, Joseph Gallab 1, Blossom Dharmaraj 1, Fangwen Zhou 1, Cynthia Lokker 1, Wael Abdelkader 1, Dena Zeraatkar 1, Jason W Busse 1

    Abstract

    Background: Myalgic encephalomyelitis (ME), also referred to as chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS), is a complex illness that typically presents with disabling fatigue and cognitive and functional impairment. The etiology and management of ME/CFS remain contentious and patients often describe their experiences through social media.

    Objective: We explored public discourse on Twitter (rebranded as X) to understand the concerns and priorities of individuals living with ME/CFS, with a focus on (1) the COVID-19 pandemic and (2) publication of the 2021 UK National Institute for Health and Care Excellence (NICE) guidelines on the diagnosis and management of ME/CFS.

    Methods: We used the Twitter application programming interface to collect tweets related to ME/CFS posted between January 1, 2010, and January 30, 2024. Tweets were sorted into 3 chronological periods (pre-COVID-19 pandemic, post-COVID-19 pandemic, and post-UK 2021 NICE Guidelines publication). A Robustly Optimized Bidirectional Embedding Representations from Transformers Pretraining Approach (RoBERTa) language processing model was used to categorize the sentiment of tweets as positive, negative, or neutral. We identified tweets that mentioned COVID-19, the UK NICE guidelines, and key themes identified through latent Dirichlet allocation (ie, fibromyalgia, research, and treatment). We sampled 1000 random tweets from each theme to identify subthemes and representative quotes.

    Results: We retrieved 906,404 tweets, of which 427,824 (47.2%) were neutral, 369,371 (40.75%) were negative, and 109,209 (12.05%) were positive. Over time, both the proportion of negative and positive tweets increased, and the proportion of neutral tweets decreased (P<.001 for all changes). Tweets mentioning fibromyalgia acknowledged similarities with ME/CFS, stigmatization associated with both disorders, and lack of effective treatments. Treatment-related tweets often described frustration with ME/CFS labeled as mental illness, dismissal of concerns by health care providers, and the need to seek out "good physicians" who viewed ME/CFS as a physical disorder. Tweets on research typically praised studies of biomarkers and biomedical therapies, called for greater investment in biomedical research, and expressed frustration with studies suggesting a biopsychosocial etiology for ME/CFS or supporting management with psychotherapy or graduated activity. Tweets about the UK NICE guidelines expressed frustration with the 2007 version that recommended cognitive behavioral therapy and graded exercise therapy, and a prolonged campaign by advocacy organizations to influence subsequent versions. Tweets showed high acceptance of the 2021 UK NICE guidelines, which were seen to validate ME/CFS as a biomedical disease and recommended against graded exercise therapy. Tweets about COVID-19 often noted overlaps between post-COVID-19 condition and ME/CFS, including claims of a common biological pathway, and advised there was no cure for either condition.

    Conclusions: Our findings suggest research is needed to inform how best to support patients' engagement with evidence-based care. Furthermore, while patient involvement with ME/CFS research is critical, unmanaged intellectual conflicts of interest may threaten the trustworthiness of research efforts.


    https://www.jmir.org/2025/1/e65087

    :emoji_rolling_eyes:
     
  2. Three Chord Monty

    Three Chord Monty Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    “We looked at 900,000 Tweets going back 15 years! ME/CFS patients claim responsibility for replacing evidence-based, safe and long-proven, effective interventions with pseudoscience, all because they think there’s something wrong with having a psychological illness they perceive as physical. They are a rather negative bunch and there’s really no such thing as PEM.

    The guideline revision was a horrible process and actual medics still protest to little avail, and the current paradigm perpetuates psych stigma for the sake of patient “advocacy.” Their groundless disdain for CBT & GET which seems to help everyone providing they’re not on Twitter is truly a travesty of medicine. Recovered pts esp those fine folks from Norway recoil from their unpleasantness and aggression.

    We know all this is true because PACE, Cochrane, a truly outstanding choice of *vintage* references that, trust us, only resemble cherries, and machine learning! 900,000 Tweets, and we got this published after only 10 months of waiting since we submitted it last August. The end.”

    Sorry for the formatting, I’m on a tablet. Mods if editing is needed, apologies, just can’t hack it atm. I probably shouldn’t have wasted energy reading it. It sucks, truly.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 22, 2025 at 9:48 AM
  3. Utsikt

    Utsikt Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Where is that from?
     
  4. Utsikt

    Utsikt Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    These people apparently do not understand the difference between correlation and causation, and certainly do not understand the likely direction!
     
  5. Utsikt

    Utsikt Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    A blatant lie. GET and CBT research was downgraded because it was terrible, especially with lack of blinding and subjective outcomes.
     
  6. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    Looks like a good summary @Three Chord Monty, :D

    That's just the first two sentences. A nice setting of the scene - it's all about those middle aged women who can't think properly. No mention of PEM.
     
  7. Utsikt

    Utsikt Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    S4ME gets an indirect mention!
     
  8. Utsikt

    Utsikt Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This is just pure propaganda at this point..
     
  9. Utsikt

    Utsikt Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    We need more research on how to more effectively harm and gaslight patients.
    «Shared decision-making» is code for «let the abuser continue being involved». The CCI mention is warranted, but hardly representative.
    Of course they do not mention how researchers with intellectual conflicts of interest can compromise the research process and reduce the trustworthiness of results!
     
  10. Adam pwme

    Adam pwme Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  11. Utsikt

    Utsikt Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I agree, but I suspect for completely different reasons!
    I don’t think they are going to like the results of those efforts..
    This is just vile. Imagine blaming the patients for essentially killing each other. F*** off.
     
  12. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It really is pathetic, coming out just after Zhang et al. show important genetic causal links.

    It seems they found a lot of negative messages about care and research - so they feel they need to send out a negative message about patients.
     
  13. Yann04

    Yann04 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  14. Utsikt

    Utsikt Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    How convenient.
     
  15. hotblack

    hotblack Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This would be funny if it wasn’t so pathetic. It’s sentiment analysis on twitter, lol. Not going to waste any energy reading or thinking about it.

    I will add they used RoBERTa for the sentiment analysis, this is an old and small mode based on Google’s BERT. Maybe it’s good in specific circumstances but it’s not anything near current models, just in parameter size it’s under 500 million compared to the 27 billion parameter models some here run on their laptops and hundreds of billions in frontier models
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2025 at 10:30 AM
  16. Three Chord Monty

    Three Chord Monty Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I suspect they’re not any more fond of you than they are of us. Actually I suspect most of those whose names are on this don’t know what it’s about beyond what they were told by Busse. I think one might be a CBT comrade true believer, but—and honestly this is just speculation—I’m assuming it’s mostly his show. I mean, do we even have any reason to believe they even know who you are?

    But there will likely be more than enough pushback on Twitter to nail down the confirmation bias I’m sure he’s happy to spread if there are actually any in this group—Jeremy Devine is McMaster, too, isn’t he—who are as yet uninitiated to our corner of the internet.

    @Utsikt I had to dash off a few sarcasm-heavy paras just to blow off some steam. Just my take on how they chose to spin this crap.
     
  17. SNT Gatchaman

    SNT Gatchaman Senior Member (Voting Rights) Staff Member

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    "In part, due to concerns about […] stigmatization (with CBT)."

    What on earth are they talking about?

    (Also, they've clearly spent so much time on Twitter that they've lost the ability to write in full sentences.)
     
  18. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    From the discussion section:

    Ref 48 is by Wessely from 1995.
    49, 50 are from 2006 and 2009
    51 is the dreadful Oslo fatigue consortium "Chronic fatigue syndromes: real illnesses that people can recover from."

    58 is the White Anomalies article trying to argue against NICE.
    59 is the infamous Cochrane review

    66 is a systematic review from 2005.
    67 and 68 are by Chalder and Wessely.
    Notable that they don't know of any other 'recovery organisations' and have to wheel out Recovery Norge again.

    70 and 71 are both based on interviews with a few patients, Busse is co-author on one of them.

    Note that apparently patients' stories are useful evidence if they tell of recovery, but dismissed if they tell of being harmed.

    77 is the Cochrane review.
    The bit about patient involvement and conflicts of interest seems to twist the meaning. 81 is a positive article about patient involvement, and 82 discusses strategies for ensuring guideline panel members don't have intellectual or financial conflicts of interest. By linking the two with a 'however', Busse seems to imply that it is the involvement of patients that causes conflict of interest, which is rubbish.
    Edit: Note also that Busse seems unaware of White and Sharpe's massive intellectual and financial conflicts of interest. And all the others of many of the BPS cabal.

    This whole paper could have been written by Busse without any input from Twitter. He clearly knew exactly how he would misuse the Twitter data before he saw it. It's all there in the section I have underlined in the conclusion.

    The final set of references are to individuals' posts about assisted dying, which I think is abuse of desperate people's tragedies, and not appropriate in this article, especially not as the 'punch line' to the conclusion. It's disgusting. How much lower are these people prepared to go? We have just had the BMJ opinion piece misusing Maeve's dreadful suffering, now this.

    I would like the journal to be contacted to complain that their internet research department has been abused to promote nasty prejudiced drivel.
     
  19. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This does not reflect public perspectives since almost no one cares or talks about ME/CFS outside of those affected. Instead it reflects what the patient community thinks, which is still valuable but a wholly different thing from "public perspectives", since it's also very obvious that we pretty much exclusively talk among ourselves, with about 95-99% of all discussions made strictly by patients.

    You do have to marvel at how easily they reconcile analyzing social media discussion, framed as a "public perspective", when it actually represented the isolated bubble of the patient community, while holding on to the false notion that such views are just a small, vocal minority. It's just like the fabled "silent majority" in politics, people who never seem to exist, yet whose alluded desires are always front-and-center.

    Reading through some of the rest, this is just clumsy propaganda, about as serious as this:
    You know what, please do that. Spend a lot of effort and money on the social media that was a nexus of the patient community up to, you know, events. Which the patient community did not mostly abandon after it took a turn into far-right trolling. Buy clumsy ads to feature alongside crypto scams and boner pills. Please spend a lot of effort on that, people will totally not be boo-urning you.
     
  20. ME/CFS Skeptic

    ME/CFS Skeptic Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Reference 48 is the Wessely study that found no association, but all other studies did find an association:
    Chronic fatigue syndrome after infectious mononucleosis in adolescents - PubMed
    Post-infective and chronic fatigue syndromes precipitated by viral and non-viral pathogens: prospective cohort study - PubMed
    Incidence, risk and prognosis of acute and chronic fatigue syndromes and psychiatric disorders after glandular fever - PubMed
    Chronic fatigue syndrome 5 years after giardiasis: differential diagnoses, characteristics and natural course - PMC

    Reference 49 is a case-control study without a longitudinal design. Reference 50 is about chronic fatigue, not CFS.

    EDIT: I originally quoted the wrong section here:
    Seems like the world upside down that they are suggesting that ME/CFS patients have a conflict of interest and should therefore not be involved in research and guidelines on ME/CFS.
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2025 at 9:15 PM

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