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First time in remission with ketogenic diet

Discussion in 'Alternative Therapies' started by leokitten, Jul 25, 2018.

  1. leokitten

    leokitten Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Btw if I didn’t mention it somewhere in this thread, I did two lipid panels during my 1 1/2 year of keto, and plenty of lipid panels to compare to them during ME before.

    With ME before keto I had really consistent normal total cholesterol, high HDL, normal LDL, and normal triglycerides (with only a couple rare bumps to borderline on triglycerides).

    During keto my total cholesterol and LDL shot up to high even though I was only eating healthy fats as much as possible. HDL didn’t change, triglycerides naturally went down.

    This is VERY common with keto. My worry is that no one knows, seriously no researchers, no clinicians, what the long-term effects would be of having bad lipid markers on cardio and cerebrovascular health with keto.

    Many pro-keto people say hand wavy totally unproven things like it’s so anti-inflammatory you won’t get cardiovascular disease or stroke, etc. But they truly have no idea!
     
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  2. leokitten

    leokitten Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Though in all fairness, I’ve read through a few of the papers looking at LDL in keto recently and the subtypes of LDL because some people on PR were saying high LDL being bad in keto is a myth.

    There is evidence on one side of the agreement that suggests it’s not LDL levels that are concerning when it comes to keto, because supposedly LDL is how fatty acids are shuffled around through your body and with keto, fatty acids and ketones are the energy source so naturally LDL will increase since its being used and moved not stored. It’s the size of the LDL particles and whether the LDL is oxidized or not which determines atherogenicity, and proponents of keto say research shows LDL particles in keto are larger and not very much oxidized, whereas in standard Western diets and possibly others they are smaller and much more oxidized, which are both atherogenic.

    But honestly, there is sound scientific research and evidence on the other side of the argument too. There are quite a few good review papers, but I think this recent clinical debate paper regarding keto and CVD is interesting starting point if you can access it:

    The ketogenic diet: Pros and cons. O’Neill et al. Atherosclerosis (2020)

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 24, 2020
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  3. calande

    calande Established Member

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    Here's a nice testimonial about a PwME who is so much better with a keto diet. Other people are too, as seen in the comments.
     
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  4. Aslaug

    Aslaug Moderator Staff Member

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    One problem is that it's easy to not eat food that protect LDL from oxidizing when aiming for ketosis, as these often contain carbs (vegetables). Then again, many of the foods that are restricted can be problematic for a number of people, so in sum it might work out. As long as nutrient requirements are met, which is not always the case.

    Another thing is that we don't necessarily know how long LDL is high when people start to eat a high fat diet, some people seem to adapt and LDL lowers again. Which makes it infuriating when a trial is only three weeks or so and you don't know if the high numbers will go down at a later timepoint (if they rose at all, some studies show high variance between subjects).

    Unfortunately I don't believe everyone that starts on restrictive diets take measurements to meet all their nutrient requirements, some of these issues may not be apparent for years :(
     
  5. calande

    calande Established Member

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    I just read in a book that it's expected to take 5 to 10 weeks for mitochondria to renew and get used to using ketones. This may imply that it should take time to recover energy levels and to clear brain fog, no?
     
  6. calande

    calande Established Member

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    Those of you who recovered with a keto diet, if you left the keto diet for a low carb, high fat diet, did the recovery last?
     
  7. calande

    calande Established Member

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    How long did it take you to get adapted? I'm into my 5th week, and my ketogenic bodies are still high (4.7 mmol/L), with a 3.9 mmol/L glycemia (as soon as I get up in the morning).
     
  8. Keela Too

    Keela Too Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Keto helped me - I think. It has in no way been a cure, more a feeling that I do better.

    My step count didn’t improve much long term, if at all. However, I get fewer migraines, think I have a clearer head, and my appetite is definitely more consistent.

    However, I am probably now more “low carb” than keto. I think this does as well for me, and allows me more flexibility in what I eat. To stay full keto is quite restrictive. I like to have a bit if variety in my vegetable options. I still don’t eat bread, rice, pasta, porridge or potatoes, but occasional carrots, parsnips and turnips, I allow.

    PS Turnip: English translation = swede. USA = rutabaga ;)
     
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  9. leokitten

    leokitten Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  10. leokitten

    leokitten Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Moved post

    I was on the diet for over a year (mid 2018 - 2019) and it gave me really significant improvements for the first few months, though I overexerted way too much and then slowly it seemed to help less and less.

    I also have this strange ME symptom since long before doing KD, where I get ínstense hunger when I’m in PEM or close to a crash. Like my body is screaming out for energy. Quite a few other people report having this too. Overexerting with KD didn’t help with this and maybe felt even more intense.

    Last year ME got much worse, hopefully if I ever improve and have more energy I want to try the diet again without overexerting to see what happens.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 18, 2021
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  11. calande

    calande Established Member

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    Soon two months into KD, with 4.2 mmol/L ketones right after getting up, but no energy (although I take electrolytes 3x/day and have 230~250g fat daily).
     

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