Acupuncture and other traditional Chinese medicine news and discussion thread

Acupuncture Is Theatrical Placebo

I've just now found this 2013 article about the acupuncture after a skeptic doctor posted a link to it on her blog. I searched S4ME to see if anyone had posted it previously but nothing came up. So here it is...

https://journals.lww.com/anesthesia...000/Acupuncture_Is_Theatrical_Placebo.25.aspx

 

Most common shoulder operation is no more beneficial than placebo surgery.

Overall, shoulder pain was substantially improved in all three groups from the start of the trial. However, decompression surgery offered no greater benefit to shoulder pain than placebo surgery. The patients in the diagnostic arthroscopy group were no more likely than those in the decompression group to guess that they had had a placebo procedure.

 

Merged thread

Acupuncture and ME crashes

Because of the issues of dislocations and pain in my joints, due to EDS, I was referred by my go to a physiotherapist. I have been receiving treatment for the last 6 months which has consisted massages of my joints and acupuncture.

A couple of sessions I had used very few points, which helped with the pain and thankfully didn’t have much impact on my ME symptoms. The 3rd session, however, was a bit more intense. Felt a little relaxed/tired after but other than that thought nothing of it. By the next evening I felt terrible and was bedridden for 3 weeks due to a bad ME crash.

At first I couldn’t quite put my finger on why I crashed and the only thing I could think of was acupuncture. I looked online to see if it affected others and I found that a couple of experiences where the same thing happened to them. One woman tried it a second time to test the theory and it affected her the same way as the first time. I have not tried it since, instead just having the deep massages of my joints. Although I have been thinking giving it another go as it did help with the pain.

I was wondering if this happened to anyone else?

 

Merged thread

Article: Verywell :Acupuncture for Chronic Fatigue Syndrome; What Research Shows

Not a recommendation

I haven't been through the scientific links in this article but I suspect that the 'evidence' maybe tenous at best.

there is the option to vote on the articles content at the bottom (no registration required)
https://www.verywellhealth.com/acupuncture-for-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-715648

 

At least from the outset it makes clear there is no claim to cure, and not full symptom relief either. Not read past that bit yet.

 

I know a few that acupuncture has helped for symptom relief. Sane with Perrin technique. It does trend to floor you immmediately afterwards though for either.

 

Near where I lived in the early stages of ME there was a British acupuncturist who had trained in China. He told me that he cured two thirds of ME sufferers who went to him but could do nothing for the remaining third (including me as it turned out). I knew two other people in the parish with ME. One he cured; the other not.

 

I thought acupuncture in general had been shown to be no better than placebo?

 

Early on in my illness I went to one acupuncturist one day a week in the evening for about 12 weeks. The following day I would have enough energy to complete errands like shopping and whatnot. Then the following day I would fall back to my baseline.

I had my one 100% remission that lasted two to three days right after an acupuncture session with a different acupuncturist.

I also went to an acupuncture school where I went about 50 times and had no relief other than from some the herbs they gave me. At least the cost was reduced.

 

same author as this article
https://www.s4me.info/threads/artic...bromyalgia-and-chronic-fatigue-syndrome.7474/

 

Merged thread

Acupuncture advert banned over long COVID claim (msn.com)

 

So they've been forced to refund all customers who expected that their 'treatment' would cure long covid, and paid money to be cured accordingly, plus forced to pay compensation in the amount of 1 years turnover per defrauded client?

Harsh, possibly could be seen as unfair, but then...so were the hopes raised by their adverts, or so the ASA have deemed.

 

Moved posts

Dragon's Den Entrepreneur claims she cured her ME with ear beads 8pm tonight, January 18th BBC1


The Star - 16/1/2024
https://www.thestar.co.uk/business/...Q0C6tydvtHs4LpltzUnrv2CJXn_GTSnFPRAd-Afi-9t8#

'Acu Seeds: Sheffield health firm founder inspired by chronic fatigue 'cure' to appear on Dragons' Den
She made a full recovery from ME using diet, acupuncture, Chinese herbs and ‘ear seeds’

'
A Sheffield woman who launched a health business after curing her own chronic fatigue is to appear on Dragons’ Den.

Giselle Boxer was 26 and working for a top advertising agency when she was diagnosed with M.E (myalgic encephalomyelitis). It left her mostly housebound and unable to walk far, she said. Doctors told her she would never recover, work again or have children.

But she made a full recovery within 12 months using diet, acupuncture, Chinese herbs and ‘ear seeds’ - tiny beads, based on acupuncture principles, which are applied to the ear to stimulate nerve endings.

It inspired her to set up Acu Seeds in November 2021. She will appear seeking investment Dragon's Den on BBC One at 8pm on Thursday January 18

Giselle said she was not allowed to reveal how her pitch was received by the dragons - Sara Davies, Steven Bartlett, Deborah Meaden, Touker Suleyman and Peter Jones - who are famously critical of what they consider to be bad ideas.

"My own recovery from M.E. through these methods motivated me to create Acu Seeds and offer these benefits to others seeking holistic wellness."

In the first full financial year, Giselle said she turned over £92,000 in revenue.'





Dragons Den BBC programme site
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006vq92

Link for tonight's programme

'For the first time in Den history the Dragons have company – guest Gary Neville [foootball player] . He joins the fearsome five – Peter Jones, Deborah Meaden, Touker Suleyman, Sara Davies and Steven Bartlett – to fight it out for the best investments in the Den. A former professional footballer pitches his match worn memorabilia business, while an ear acupuncture devotee wants to bring the ancient Chinese practice into the future. A Welsh husband and wife team think they’ve found the best way to view your favourite movie, and a spiritual entrepreneur is convinced his all-natural drink will become more popular than coffee.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001vfsz




The Acu Seeds business website

https://acuseeds.co.uk/pages/learn-...49GNZ6StyrMWWzwzewj6BP9CPRwUvuQ7C1JkfT5KOTQTY

'Acu Seeds was founded by Giselle Boxer, who was diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome or M.E at the age of 26. When her GP told her that she would never recover from the condition, Giselle went on a personal healing journey using a holistic approach of diet, supplementation but most importantly Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM). Through the use of acupuncture, Chinese herbs and ear seeds, Giselle is now fully recovered and thriving!

Giselle is a certified Ear Seed Practitioner and it is her mission to teach ear seeding to other wellness professionals'





You can contact Dragon's Den on twitter or Facebook
https://twitter.com/BBCDragonsDen

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0...SzTtBTrXdZxaSnZlcvthogwKD9epvn_SKwK-h63KZjVIU



Another menace. Is she violating advertising law? Her claim to cure ME on her website is her own testimonial.

 

oh no!

Cue several people telling me, with excitement, that i should try them because they cured this woman on tv.

For a start i find it hard to believe any UK GP would ever tell anyone they would never recover & never have children. That would be radically, radically against the establishment view and (in their minds) be harmful to tell us that.

Secondly - she recovered 'within 12 months' .... yeah most people do... with no intervention whatsoever. So like all the other I did 'X' & recovered, its MUCH more likely that she would have recovered anyway & is attributing her healing to this stuff when actually she simply recovered *after* doing those things, rather than *because* of them.

 

I've submitted a complaint.

 

Please contact/complain to Dragons Den with references, links to the previous ASA rulings re 'cures' for ME being advertised.

 

In my experience doctors rarely say such things. Even to those who, in their opinion, merit it.

I couldn't even get my GP to sign a form, for student loans, to say that I was unlikely to work again. The fact I'd been unable to work for over 20 years, at that point, was irrelevant in her eyes, as a 'cure' could be available 'in a year or two'.

The fact that no research suggested a treatment, or even a convincing model as to what causes ME, what bodily systems would need to be treated, and that even once this was known it could easily take a decade before treatment would be available on the NHS, was also irrelevant.

So the woman is likely talking total rubbish, making it up.