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This seems very ambiguous. It doesn't say flu-like symptoms are required, just giving it as an example. So exacerbated cognitive issues should fit too. I just did the ICC criteria questionnaire and did not fulfill it, probably because I don't have enough of the various other symptoms: "immune...

Hmm, well I don't think aches, pains, obvious immune issues, or delay in fatigue are required for ME. I certainly don't have the first three.

So I guess in @Blueskytoo's daughter's case, if her cognitive issues also increase that'd be PEM? And what if it's just fatigue, but it's delayed? Isn't delay pretty unique to PEM? Edit: The only "symptoms" required for ME/CFS by IOM criteria are fatigue, unrefreshing sleep, and either...

Just curious why you say it's not PEM. Seems like taking days to recover from normal exertion sounds pretty similar.

How a Worm Gave the South a Bad Name By Rachel Nuwer April 27, 2016 "For more than three centuries, a plague of unshakable lethargy blanketed the American South. It began with “ground itch,” a prickly tingling in the tender webs between the toes, which was soon followed by a dry cough. Weeks...

I'm going to see a doctor for the first time regarding ME/CFS in a month, and I'm very worried about what exactly is going to happen after I say "chronic fatigue syndrome". I don't want her to start suggesting antidepressants or exercise. Sure I can respond to these (name an antidepressant I've...

But doesn't this imply that while you might not be able to test for antibodies, or some other aspect of the body's response, you should be able test for the virus directly with PCR, maybe even more easily, since it's not being suppressed?

Sorry, what does this mean?

Not instant, but this person on Reddit says after testing positive for COVID 1.5 days earlier, they went from a little sleepy to very sick in one hour, though no mention of fatigue as one of the after symptoms. This person got intense fatigue and fever within an hour, after three days of muscle...

If this delayed onset period to PEM can vary with different severities of ME, maybe severe ME means the defenses are even further weakened, to where the body has more trouble holding off whatever is happening in that delayed symptom rise period. Could be there are also some people without ME...

Is it that much different from how someone feels when they get an acute infection? I think it can be a few days after an initial exposure that you're fine, then on the third or fourth day you wake up and can barely move. I could be wrong, I don't know if that's how people normally experience...

Can someone link to the Lipkin study? I can't find it.

Link to Substack post

Could you explain? I think if there was evidence (or negative evidence) about persistence of specifically the virus that preceded ME, it would be pretty meaningful in showing how it relates to that initial infection.

That's a bit surprising to me. I just found this: The open window of susceptibility to infection after acute exercise in healthy young male elite athletes, Kakanis et al, 2010 So even if it's not necessarily "taking energy away", it looks like there are lots of significant changes to the...

Doesn't viral persistence offer a pretty good explanation for delayed PEM? Exertion and repair from that exertion take energy away from the immune system [Edit: "energy stealing" doesn't have to be the reason, could be some other unknown mechanism where exertion allows a virus to proliferate...

I think there should also be a section on how ME/CFS relates to conditions like Long COVID and GWI.

Thread about the referenced study of CSF drainage improving symptoms.

Lumbar puncture, chronic fatigue syndrome and idiopathic intracranial hypertension: a cross-sectional study Authors: Nicholas Higgins, John Pickard, Andrew Lever Abstract Objective Unsuspected idiopathic intracranial hypertension (IIH) is found in a significant minority of patients attending...