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I'm sure it's me. :( I don't remember this WB piece either. I will keep trying. I'm in the US, and I've seen sciihub stuff before. I don't know. My brain is misfiring,

This is 100% spot-on! They are so similar in symptoms, but how you get from point a to b is reversed. They broadened the route to ME/CFS and narrowed it to Lyme. And they mischaracterized both in the process.

@chrisb, I cannot seem to access it. I'm sure I am doing something wrong. Abstract reads oddly personal. Looking forward to reading the entire thing.

I was trying, for accuracy's sake, to find that quote from Weintraub. I could not find it - her book is long - but I did find an interesting corollary that strikes at the heart of many of the Lyme studies emerging in the last 35 years. It's on pg 345 of "Cure Unknown": "Because their studies...

People were getting sick in that area - around Lyme - as early as the late 60's, if I'm not mistaken. It's not like they even had a handle on babesia back then. But relative to Bb, I'm trying to recall if it were strain B31 or not (B31 being the strain most people are tested for in the US). As...

History.

The reason the cause matters is that proper treatment is predicated on the correct cause. You are correct, though - they may have it right. They just haven proven it yet. They know that, too.

This is an assumption. I think what they have demonstrated suggests Bb PG can cause an antibody response that is peculiar to Bb. I'm ok with that. But they have not demonstrated this happens naturally post-infection. There is no reason to conclude this is debris or nonviable spirochetal blebs...

@chrisb, he suspected that in 1979 even, I think. In Benach's ticks he found spirochetes - later labeled the causative agent of Lyme - and rickettsia and babesia and a type of worm. I think that he used Swiss Agent and East side agent interchangeably, with perhaps east side referring to east of...

If you're interested you might want to check out the work of Dr. Judith Miklossy. She's published a lot in the area of spirochetes. I cannot remember is she is out of Austria or Switzerland or...Regardless, she makes comparisons between different spirochetal infections and draws pretty sharp...

Hoping they meant "by" clinical assessment...And even then, clinical assessment sounds to me suspiciously like "whatever the patient tells us."

An assumptive close, typically. ETA: This gets really complicated real fast. Truth be told, persistent symptoms may in fact be due to an immune malfunction, which may involve debris. We don't know. Neither side has been demonstrated conclusively, persistently. Where I draw the line is how they...

@wigglethemouse and @rvallee , this has been part of the conventional Lyme narrative since circa 1990. The "small but significant number of people with Lyme disease continue to suffer..." is widely acknowledged to be 10-20 percent of infected individuals. At currently around 400,000 cases per...

Yes, in privileged sites like brain tissue, heart muscles, tendons, lymph nodes, biofilms, etc - things that would involve invasive procedures to find - and even then it's hit or miss since the testing isn't geared toward direct culture, and neither is the spirochete. Sure, with mechanisms like...

@rvallee, a lot to unpack in your questions, but the short answer is Yes, if you are asking in general. Let me see if I can get my hands and computer to comply and let me copy and paste each of your questions with some short answers. Sorry for brevity; these are fair and good questions, and I...

No, that is inaccurate. Many dispute that. Northeastern University's Kim Lewis, Tulane's Monica Embers, Johns Hopkins' Zhang... Many more. These and other's have published within the past few years that Bb persisters happen despite IDSA-recommended treatment protocol. Indeed, there has been a...

Just a short note of explanation to any who might wonder. A problem within the Lyme community is that frequently only overt signs are given any degree of serious scrutiny by some researchers. Swollen knees, facial palsy, EM or - in Europe - ACA. Things that the researcher can see. If someone...

:thumbup: Some of my favorite people.... If it ain't the knees or facial palsy, it ain't there. And even when it is, it's likely nonviable remnants, so it really isn't. Of course, it's full court press time now that the draft of the new Lyme Guidelines is out. Let's see, in the last two...

Is this the Allen Steere thing? I cannot access the article/study. I'm thinking this is Allen Steere's umpteenth attempt at trying to prove it really ain't persistent Lyme that's causing all those pesky persistent symptoms. Rheumatologists...Go figure.

My unscientific rule of thumb is tone. Measured responses that stick to science and avoid circular reasoning, I give these folk some respect, but it's been my experience that they are becoming an increasingly rare breed. (The Irony here is I am referring to mainstream TBD researchers, not Lyme...