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You are not gonna get an argument from me on that either. Overtraining syndrome, post-viral syndrome => MECFS. Same MECFS regardless of the trigger, as long as it lasts more than 6 months and meets the symptomatic requirement.

No, that's not what I'm saying. Saying MECFS is post-viral means viral infection is required for MECFS. I'm saying MECFS is just what MECFS definition defines, not post-viral or non-post-viral or whatever. Really? I'd like a link of that. I'm not aware of any definition that requires...

Well, ok, that was my words for "Long OTS" that lasts more than 6 months. Those are indeed diagnosed as MECFS because, well, they meet the MECFS definition after 6 months.

Nobody has problem saying their MECFS is post-viral. But there are some people who are quick to dismiss non-viral onset. There were people dismissing Jenn Brea's case, for example, despite her being diagnosed with MECFS with all requisite symptoms. No, not exactly same. If they were, it would...

Nobody said ME isn't post-viral. Viral onset may be the most common onset, but it is not the only one. There are several onset triggers and too many people are looking at the viral onsets only with blinders on.

Overtraining Syndrome - PMC (nih.gov) In particular, look at Table 2 from the ECSS definition. I can't find the original ECSS paper, but I'll post it when I do.

GWI sleuth work has lead to a partiular chemical weapons disposal site, I've heard. IH/CCI cases also do exist and can't be ignored, though those cases seem to resolve once IH/CCI is corrected. MECFS is rather well defined, by the symptoms. People who think it's post-viral, or certain MECFS is...

Only to people obsessed with validation of their disorder. There have been hundreds, if not thousands, of papers on physiology, more than those on psychosomatic features, on it. That some MECFS is caused by Long Covid is *NOT* an evidence that MECFS is post-infectious. It's only an evidence...

Right, a quick look at something let's you come to a quick conclusion. That, btw, sounds awfully similar to what people used to say about MECFS. All I can say is, I've been through it and I'm afraid your quick opinions not going to change much.

Hmmm, Jonathan says nothing, while Monje says something. I'll have to think about this, man.

No idea on specific physiology, so I'll have to defer to researchers and experts. But Monje's study did show glial activation in hippocampus, presumably same as cancer patients suffering from chemo fog. Was it from inflammation/cytokines? Again, no idea. I'll have to wait the publication on...

One theory I'm aware of: proinflammatory cytokines -> BBB breach ->monocyte recruitment by glial cells? Or something like that. There was a Canadian paper on it. I'll post when I find it.

OTS produces a set of symptoms identical to MECFS in both men and women. Along with disorders like concussion fatigue, GWI, and some cases of IH/CCI. If chasing MECFS as viral/post-viral disorder for 40 years produced nothing, another 40 years of the same thing is not likely to produce results...

It actually goes both ways for MECFS. Some people with sudden onset just assume that it is an infection without diagnosis. Bruce Campell and his doctor, for example, assumed that he had a viral infection when he struggled with sudden unexplained fatigue. But he had several bouts with unexplained...

No it doesn't. I just threw it in there. :) That has been the common question whenever overtraining is mentioned as a cause. One of the speculations is a dormant infection reactivated by the stress. Well, I can't say for other athletes, though Julie "Meyers" was indeed diagnosed for OTS first...

Is it fair to say inflammatory cytokines are inflammatory agents? The thesis, afaik, is that the inflammatory agents cause breaching BBB causing neurological pathology.

Depression as part of sickness behavior, yes. FADE is not. One can debate FADE is real or not, but overtraining syndrome is real. And OTS appears to be a FADE by all acounts.

Next to viral infection, overtraining appears to be. Julie (Meyer or something), an Olympic rower. Dean Anderson, competitive cross-country skier. Jamison, a gym rat. (And me who got sick while competing in Judo tournaments). One of the common refrain among MECFS patients seems to be "I used to...

Paroxetine for the Prevention of Depression Induced by High-Dose Interferon Alfa | NEJM, metioned in Inflammation of the body may explain depression in the brain - The Washington Post makes rather clear inflammation's role in depression. Just to be clear, it is about the role of inflammation...

I would think inflammation's roll in depression and weakness is now well understood and accepted. And the emotional change accompanying PEM is rather palpable for some MECFS patients. How to quantify it? I have no idea. I suppose the change is as quantifiable as any depression/weakness. If...