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Yes, I think this is true & may well muddy the waters. Possibly the majority of people with "long covid" contracted the virus but without (accurate) tests no one knows for sure. It is entirely possible that some patients caught some other virus such as EBV, or something else and are...

Absolutely. :thumbup:

Wessely once said something about "treatment" for ME patients being about giving the patient the opportunity to reverse course without a loss of face (paraphrasing). I wonder if the plight of the covid long haulers is providing that opportunity to the likes of Chew Graham?

I think Vogt is doing a fantastic job - of demonstrating exactly the kind of zealotry we're up against. Someone makes a reasonable criticism and instead of arguing the point Vogt becomes personal while telling the other person to take that back. The guy's like a bad caricature of.....something.

I have no answers for you @Snow Leopard. Sorry. I do know exactly what you mean though. It really makes me laugh in an ironic sort of way when I read the latest BPS "offerings" which increasingly tend to be a poorly understood rip off of a simple concept that forms part of a more complex...

Sorry, I'm probably not being clear. It's the usage of the same terms, or the possible mistake by healthy individuals that they might mean the same things that are a concern. This is something I came up against repeated in the early years. Perfectly healthy people telling me that they...

That's the snag for me though, what I felt was totally unlike anything I had felt before. I'd never run a marathon when well but as a teen took part in a few 24 hour sports marathons for charity. By the end of it you could barely move your legs and still faced a hike of several miles to get...

Me too.

https://www.virology.ws/2020/10/01/tria-by-error-royal-society-of-medicine-webinar-on-long-covid/ Alastair Millar says Yet we know that the majority of these "other centers" neither collect nor record patient outcomes & certainly have no clue what happens to patients in the long term. The...

I know! I knew no better. Discovering that I could neither do any of the physical activities I previously enjoyed nor the cognitive ones was immensely frustrating. I found it so difficult to believe my life could be reduced by so much, that I could lose so much - job and finances just being a...

On the topic of trying to isolate / understand cognitive induced PEM - I had forgotten about it but at one point I did use exercises to try to train up my brain. As I was used to technical problems solving type issues from work and I was clearly struggling to do that I decided to try something...

Nope. When I had a working brain I thoroughly enjoyed reading technical documents - it was part of my job. I can't say I'm terribly interested in legal documents but I like getting my head round things. So, even if it's not something I would necessarily want to do, I would still get...

My OI is relatively mild, especially in cool weather. So let's assume I'm sitting down with my feet up & back supported to minimise that - Reading will involve using the eye muscles so can trigger physically induced PEM that can easily be confounded with cognitively induced PEM for me...

Hmm. Wasn't that what convalescence was for - to help people rest and recuperate while experiencing debilitating after effects post infection? Perhaps if medicine hadn't been so keen to simply take the word of certain self appointed experts in the 80's we'd know a lot more about post viral long...

Riiight. What a load of old....... When I eventually sought help for my symptoms, like an idiot I was relieved to be told I had ME. I only knew what I had read about it in newspapers. From being scared there was actually something seriously wrong with me I was kind of pleased to think it was...

At times it may be hard to tell the difference but, for me, there is a difference. Increased fatiguability will certainly lower my PEM threshold and being in PEM will increase my fatiguability so there's a very strong relationship between two different things, I think. For me, cognitive PEM...

We're expect this but some of us are no longer used to it because we simply can't afford the toll it would take on our health to do it. Many of us just don't bother anymore. Never mind going to an outpatient clinic some of us take risks by not attending A & E on occasion when we should...

Based on the questions you posted in #56 above (sorry not got the necessary to reread) they seem to think it's a predictable thing and people will be able to give precise answers. That is absolutely the opposite if what living with ME is like unless you're very severe and can do very little, in...

Yep. It takes a lot more self discipline to stop than it does to keep going.

I find PEM caused by cognitive exertion a very tricky beast. For me it is most likely to hit immediately or fairly quickly. How quickly it resolved depends on how much I've pushed (assuming I haven't pushed physically). What I do is as important as how long I do it for - like with physical...