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Looking only only at the conclusion I would agree. Skimming the full text I found their reasoning rather confusing though. It's not clear to me how they arrived at their conclusion. Sorry not well enough to give examples.

As the full text is paywalled and it's an Elsevier publication, just a reminder that there's the option to get patient access:

Does this mean further comments on the content should better be posted on Qeios then?

Yes, huge thanks once again to Jonathan and everyone's comments. I'm late & once again apologies for not being able to read through the thread. Managed to read the paper's first couple of paragraphs until the Snakes and Ladders comparison in the most recent version posted here. I think that's...

Not a trial but perhaps useful for a confrontation both with the negligence of the issue with using subjective outcomes in (unblindable) therapist-delivered treatments and with the feasibility of using objective outcomes:

Sorry, have been writing this while new replies were posted -- so won't be able to reply but just add my last post on the 'essential' critique of the BPS research on ME/CFS. I remember that even if the essential critique on the BPSers favorite trial design (non-blinded trials with subjective...

Agree -- some of these other reasons might have helped short-term in getting awareness on the either bad or non-existent care for pwME/CFS and very poor research on their illness. Long-term what's needed is better research and pragmatic care until we have treatments. I see that it may more...

Yes. I'm just afraid "we" are still a minority who see this as it is. Thanks to a lot of work done by many people with and without ME/CFS, including you and other forum members, also maybe thanks to the appearance of Long Covid, the PACE trial and related claims now have lost credibility in the...

Just thought that paragraph on the Science Media Centre (SMC) deserved quoting, too: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/oct/18/maeve-bothby-oneill-me-chronic-fatigue-syndrome

Not sure if its actually wrong or just not clearly worded. "The critics were right" I think is the important part. Edit: What @dave30th and @Peter Trewhitt said There are still many 'experts' in the relevant disciplines who think that it's OK to use poor trial methodology in assessing...

While I agree with your suggestion on the three-versus-two-boxes, I think the bit about appealing to authority by referencing NICE is not what George actually did. Before he mentions NICE he writes: "But the critics were right. When a tribunal ordered Queen Mary University of London to release...

Huge thanks to @George Monbiot for this and to everyone who talked with him -- I think it's overall a good article on such a tragic cause. One minor thing on the title and teaser -- not sure if relevant at all: Could it be a bit confusing to have "ME/CFS" split up between title and teaser...

Yes, thank you Jonathan and everyone contributing comments. Looks very useful. I have made a few notes but before trying to properly word them will read through the discussion if already covered. Likely won't be able to do this before the end of next week.

Apologies for just popping in as not being able to read through the thread. About the title. I like to have the phrasing "the Concept of ME/CFS" in the title, also as it could appear still interesting to those who think there is no valid concept. Just think it needs an addition so that those...

@Jonathan Edwards -- will you check this thread tomorrow morning / by what time does it make sense to post here?

I think I agree. Just interested in knowing what that means in detail. E.g. would providing a private space on S4ME to discuss with whoever is interested on an individual project managed or funded by AfME fit in or would that be already out of the scope?

About the discussion whether physiotherapists are needed for ME/CFS care. Agree that mostly not. But there are certain cases where I think they could be helpful, e.g. if you get better after having been bedbound for a very long time. Not to be confused with the enthusiasm of getting very...

Apologies for just popping in for that off-topic aspect: Good point. I think every medical discipline also deals with non-structural illness/ syndromes -- with or without attaching a "functional" / psychosomatic label to them? I had some good experiences both with 2-3 neurologists and...

From another thread: Maybe would be good to have such a survey filled in by pwME/ carers in addition, to corroborate/ contrast with the results of the survey addressed to HCP?

Adding to post above on points 1 f) & 2.: Maybe in a second step this model could include doing some basic research, too.