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B. Repetitive grip testing, electrophysiology, transcranial magnetic stimulation Note that only a subgroup of the participants did the experiment - I think just 8 ME/CFS and 6 healthy controls. The problem with this subsetting is that we don't know if the groups were well matched (maybe the...

There were a number of grip strength experiments. A. grip strength, time to failure B Electrophysiology and repetitive grip testing; Transcranial magnetic stimulation C. fMRI repetitive grip testing A. Grip strength Hand grip strength measured with a dynamometer - for each hand: 1. maximum...

Yes, I think we do need to look into this. I think they may be assuming that tests are more certain than they actually are, I've seen references that cast doubt on the certainty of claims about central/peripheral fatigue based on electromyography. There are things like cutaneous fat that seem...

Differences in mean BMI - LC=34; ME/CFS=31; control =24 Could that affect dexterity? The study itself doesn't have any electrophysiology stuff, it's just purely measures of success with fine motor tasks. There is a lot of overlap in the results of the LC and ME/CFS groups with the control...

Notes the multiple overlaps of LC with ME/CFS Notes that ME/CFS is a debilitating condition Notes that there is no known cure or definitive treatment This 'ruling out peripheral fatiguability thing' - I'm getting the sense from some references I've read lately that it's not as straightforward...

You are right, I had misremembered. What differed, in the same way as the ages, is the proportions in different categories. There were quite a lot more participants with ME/CFS with a BMI over 30.

@tuppence - Thank you for your wisdom, care and kindness.

Yes, but it is even worse than that. People with MS have a validated, socially sanctioned disease. People with ME/CFS, well, we have to deal with crap like this paper. So participants with ME/CFS are carrying a whole other burden of feeling responsible to the ME/CFS community, and justifiable...

I thought this was a nicely done study from a Polish team. Just a measure of muscle performance in Long Covid but competently done, with no over-claiming of what the results mean and some ideas about future investigations. Ebbing Strength, Fading Power: Unveiling the Impact of Persistent...

(a late cross-post with SNT - apologies for any repetition) Polish study Hospitalised Covid-19 patients, but not severe disease or significant comorbidities. All had had Covid-19 pneumonia. Patient cohort: 23 female, 22 male; healthy cohort similar Young cohort - Patient cohort mean 38 years...

Thanks @bobbler for your useful analysis. Here's a bit more: The Effort-Expenditure for Rewards Task (EEfRT) So, yes, Method in the Walitt et al study for each choice, the participant chooses one of two tasks: the easy task involving 30 button presses in seven seconds with the dominant...

Yes, catechols were measured in the CSF. I get confused when sympathetic nerve function gets mentioned. But, just looking at Parkinsons patients who appear to tend to have lowish levels of some of the catechols, they also seem to have low heart rate variability*. So, it's not impossible to...

There doesn't seem to be any analysis of that. It's possible that there isn't a sufficiently wide or reliable difference in severity among the ME/CFS participants to find significant relationships with levels of molecules.

Yes, me too. Except that the 2 day CPET differences in ME/CFS are still not entirely beyond question - a replication in a very well conducted, adequately sized NIH investigation would have been extremely helpful. DOPA, DOPAC and DPHG Re Evergreen's query above: L-DOPA is the precursor to...

I suspect it was primarily my post that caused @sarahtyson to respond so defensively. So, I'm sorry to those members who spent a lot of time writing constructive and well-considered criticisms, for triggering a negative labelling of everyone engaging on the thread. I do remain rather...

If you believe that, then you haven't been paying attention to the considerable amount of information we have provided to you in this and other threads. Questionnaires that produce misleading results do harm. Incorrect information leads to wrong conclusions and a misallocation of resources...

I think this is surely something that US advocacy groups can change. They can point out the poor recruitment response (I'm still not really convinced that it was due to lack of patient interest. I knew the problems with Walitt, but I was still keen to participate, (I would have travelled from...

On the NIH study and this paper potentially being of use to BPS interests and specifically their desired outcome in the new Cochrane Exercise Therapy Review: Oh, I can imagine that there are plenty of ways for that to happen - 'more research is needed on how to tweak things exactly right, but...

It's not a full recovery story, I'd call it an improvement and adaptation story:

@Woolie - have you caught up with this study yet? You might like to weigh in on the brain imaging findings? I'm looking forward to really understanding how the authors support this effort preference idea - I haven't got to that bit yet.