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Trial By Error: What Is the Dynamic Neural Retraining System? 2 September 2020 David Tuller

Discussion in 'Alternative Therapies' started by Sly Saint, Sep 3, 2020.

  1. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    alktipping, Milo, rainy and 15 others like this.
  2. MeSci

    MeSci Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Cornwall, UK
    Small error noticed: "Whether the were rendered".
    alktipping, Trish, Louie41 and 2 others like this.
  3. lunarainbows

    lunarainbows Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Dan‘s ANS rewire programme and the optimum health clinic do similar things too. I think both are quite popular, unfortunately.
    alktipping, Trish, Louie41 and 2 others like this.
  4. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Truly the golden age of magical thinking. So damn embarrassing that it's mainly coming directly out of medicine itself. The future once promised universal education and science all-around. Instead we have this medieval crap straight out of fevered cocaine-powered dystopian nightmares.

    Frankly medicine straight up believing in ghosts wouldn't even be any worse, this is maximal failure already. The idea that the autonomic nervous system can be rewired is so ludicrous on its face, it would be such a massive design flaw it would make survival impossible. Right up there with requiring conscious thought to breathe. It completely flies in the face of common sense about the solutions biology needs to come up with to promote survival.
    alktipping, JemPD, rainy and 7 others like this.
  5. lunarainbows

    lunarainbows Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I’m also pretty sure Curable was along these lines as well. There was a talk about rewiring your responses to pain at some point. The thing is though so many people do it / advocate for it. I follow an Instagram account for spoonies and the person in it did curable and she was talking about how great it was and how much it’s helped her and that she would recommend it as it’s after all only £60 a year and she’s spent countless money before on other things which didn’t help, so this is money well spent. I was so disappointed as up till now they hadn’t seemed like the kind of person who would be taken in by it.
    alktipping, rainy, Trish and 4 others like this.
  6. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Maybe not altogether on point but more of a counterpoint to the above quote:

    The above quote is by a neuroscientist referring to Elon Musk's new computer chip implanted as a brain computer neuralink.


    There are other similar quotes from other neuroscientists on the same theme regarding EM's computer chip interface. That is how very little is known about the brain.

    Here for example:


    When one reads advertising or so-called 'research' by various gurus and pysch types you'd think that it's all been made clear and sorted. They are quite positive and sure -- no mystery here. All has been revealed, so long as it's not questioned.
    alktipping, Trish, John Mac and 5 others like this.
  7. Peter Trewhitt

    Peter Trewhitt Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Just so Prof Crawley isn’t feeling left out, in some of her press interviews she suggests that with CFS biomedical problems associated with the brain can be corrected by her repertoire of behavioural interventions:

    Unfortunately she only gives vague suggestions in press interviews but nothing more concrete in her research papers. This idea of using behavioural and psychological interventions to change brain functioning is not just found in alternative medicine but also in what claims to be mainstream medicine, though it terms of research method and reasoning in this field there is little to distinguish the two.
    EzzieD, alktipping, Sean and 5 others like this.
  8. strategist

    strategist Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Well put. The problem is the often absurdly exaggerated claims of efficacy and the pseudoscientific model that the proponents have constructed.

    There is nothing wrong with focusing for example more on relaxation in your life, but when it's turned into some sort of cure-all technique for devastating diseases then it becomes harmful quackery.

    BPS people should take this criticism to heart and stop trying to make-believe that this or that disease is caused by thoughts, social contagion, the stress of the pandemic or similar things. It makes them look foolish at best, or like fraudsters or even a case of untreated psychosis at worst. If BPS people can't see how absurd this is maybe they should consider that they are out of touch with how bad the diseases in question are. You don't give yourself cancer with the wrong thinking style and you also don't give yourself ME/CFS with the wrong thoughts.
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2020
    Simbindi, EzzieD, alktipping and 12 others like this.
  9. dave30th

    dave30th Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    some would disagree with this, I think. Unfortunately.

    During the worst of the AIDS epidemic in late 80s and early 90s, there were healers who were popular, and it was all about your power to effect your own healing. That's great, except people still kept getting sick and dying, and on top of that some also felt guilt as if they'd brought it on themselves by their failed self-healing efforts.
    EzzieD, alktipping, Dancer and 19 others like this.
  10. Tia

    Tia Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It's heartbreaking.

    From what I've picked up, these healers became popular because they seemed to listen, care and understand when others didn't. It is so sad that this had to come along with the 'you can heal your life' message and the associated guilt. Why can't people just stop at listening and caring?

    That's actually what annoys me about spiritual healer types - they could be offering genuine empathy and care but they refuse to do that and instead centre themselves by claiming they can 'heal' you (or show you how to 'heal yourself').
    alktipping, MEMarge, rainy and 4 others like this.
  11. Art Vandelay

    Art Vandelay Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Adelaide, Australia
    Thank you for turning your attention to this, David.

    Unfortunately I've recently seen an upsurge in fellow ME patients wasting their money on DNRS and similar scam treatments. Hopefully your articles will prevent at least some from being duped in future.
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2020
  12. JemPD

    JemPD Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    What also gets me about all of these 'treatments' is that ok, lets say they do actually retrain the brain not to alert you to certain stimuli (i dont think they do but lets just for a moment assume that it works - well nobody has proven that the signals it's currently sending, are faulty.

    If you really can change the way the brain responds to things, you'd better make darn sure that the way it is currently responding is wrong, rather than simply unpleasant. Otherwise you might find yourself not being alerted to something to do actually need to be alerted to in future... If you train the brain that it is sending a pain signal when there is no reason to, then you teach it to ignore certain stimuli.... what if actually there is a reason for it to send that signal, but you train it not to send it and you then develop bone cancer or something but dont get any pain because you taught your brain not to send alert signals for pain in the joints (or whatever).
    Simbindi, EzzieD, alktipping and 9 others like this.
  13. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Quite. Like taking heavy duty pain killers so you don't feel if you've put your hand onto a cooker hotplate.
    Simbindi, EzzieD, alktipping and 6 others like this.
  14. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It would be interesting to know the history of some of these loopy ideas, and whether they originated from government funded research. There must be doubts about the provenance of the "neuro-linguistic programming " ideas leading to the Lightning Process. There were a lot of strange people involved in strange work.
    alktipping, JemPD and Trish like this.

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