1. Guest, the 'News in Brief' for the week beginning 7th June 2021 is here.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Welcome! To read the Core Purpose and Values of our forum, click here.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Contribute to feedback on the CDC Evidence Review, for more details click here
    Dismiss Notice

Ron Davis's trypanosome 'signature' finding (IIMER conference 2018)

Discussion in 'BioMedical ME/CFS News' started by Sasha, Jul 17, 2018.

  1. Sasha

    Sasha Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,431
    Likes Received:
    21,798
    Location:
    UK
    There was a little bit of discussion about this when people were tweeting about it from the conference but I'm watching the conference DVD now and this seems quite striking. I hope the biomedical brains here (such as @Jonathan Edwards!) might weigh in on how to think about it.

    Davis reported that the gene expression in PWME is very similar to that in trypanosome (a blood parasite) and other parasite infection, compared with nearly 100,000 other disease signatures. His team is currently making DNA probes against all known trypanosomes and parasites. He said that in West Africa, you can detect trypanosomes easily in the blood but rarely see them in infections in East Africa even though they're present. He wonders if we all have a trypansome infection or whether having a trypanosome infection is one route to ME.

    If the latter, I don't understand why EBV etc. wouldn't give the same ME signature because we know from the Dubbo study that EBV is one of several viral routes to ME.

    Anybody with relevant expertise care to weigh in? Should we all be rushing out to get ourselves tested for trypanosomes (although if we've got the East African version, it wouldn't get picked up, presumably)?
     
    pteropus, janice, Melanie and 14 others like this.
  2. Sasha

    Sasha Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,431
    Likes Received:
    21,798
    Location:
    UK
    Although he says that trypanosomes may cause ME with 'high efficiency' so maybe that would be why, if the other infections are less efficient at producing it (and from the Dubbo study, the ME rate was about 11% from EBV and the other infections they were following).
     
    Melanie, MEMarge, merylg and 2 others like this.
  3. Andy

    Andy Committee Member (& Outreach when energy allows)

    Messages:
    13,230
    Likes Received:
    95,645
    Location:
    Hampshire, UK
    Can't answer any of your questions, just wanted to point out that your title suggests that the conference was next year.
     
  4. Sasha

    Sasha Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,431
    Likes Received:
    21,798
    Location:
    UK
    o_O

    Thanks, fixed it! :whistle:
     
    Melanie, MEMarge, Andy and 2 others like this.
  5. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    32,902
    Likes Received:
    156,917
    Location:
    UK
    Still waiting for my DVD :(. I guess they are sending them out in batches.
     
    Melanie, adambeyoncelowe and Inara like this.
  6. Sasha

    Sasha Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,431
    Likes Received:
    21,798
    Location:
    UK
    Oh! I thought everyone would have them if I did. I guess not!

    Another thing he mentions is that trypanosomes cause sleeping sickness and that the treatment for that is suramin, which of course Robert Naviaux used in his autism trial and is interested in for ME.

    Ron said he doesn't know what to make of that connection.
     
    janice, Melanie, MEMarge and 9 others like this.
  7. Amw66

    Amw66 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    4,513
    Likes Received:
    21,533
    Is this parasite also indigenous to India. My aunt' s ME came on after a " holiday of a lifetime" ?
    Doctors never took suggestion of foreign parasitic infection seriously, and she is mow too ill to get out of bed for any specialist testing .
     
    pteropus, Melanie, MEMarge and 4 others like this.
  8. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    6,121
    Likes Received:
    50,243
    Location:
    UK
    many years ago I remember there being some speculation about Rickettsia
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rickettsia

    eta:
    "Being obligate intracellular parasites, the Rickettsia survival depends on entry, growth, and replication within the cytoplasm of eukaryotic host cells (typically endothelial cells).[8] Rickettsia cannot live in artificial nutrient environments and is grown either in tissue or embryo cultures"

    "Rickettsia species are transmitted by numerous types of arthropod, including chigger, ticks, fleas, and lice, and are associated with both human and plant disease. Most notably, Rickettsia species are the pathogens responsible for typhus, rickettsialpox, Boutonneuse fever, African tick bite fever, Rocky Mountain spotted fever, Flinders Island spotted fever and Queensland tick typhus (Australian tick typhus).[9]
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2018
    Melanie, MEMarge, Hutan and 3 others like this.
  9. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    32,902
    Likes Received:
    156,917
    Location:
    UK
    I spoke too soon, mine's just arrived :)
     
    Melanie, MEMarge, Inara and 2 others like this.
  10. Sasha

    Sasha Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,431
    Likes Received:
    21,798
    Location:
    UK
    The ones that cause sleeping sickness are found only in Africa, apparently. But obviously not all PWME have been to Africa! If trypanosomes are the answer for all of us, they must be a different kind, presumably.
     
    Melanie, MEMarge, Inara and 3 others like this.
  11. Aroa

    Aroa Established Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    61
    Likes Received:
    395
    Location:
    Spain
    Is trypanosome one of the antigens found by Mark Davis in the T cell clonal expansión analysis ?
     
    Melanie, adambeyoncelowe and Inara like this.
  12. Stuart79

    Stuart79 New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    23
    Has anyone else noticed that a fair number of folks report travel to undeveloped countries before developing ME? It's entirely anecdotal, but this type of travel seems to pop up more than one would expect.
     
    adreno, sb4, dannybex and 8 others like this.
  13. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,113
    Likes Received:
    47,983
    Location:
    UK West Midlands
    found this by googling trypanosome Sri Lanka - only tropical country I'd visited before getting ME

    http://journals.plos.org/plosntds/article?id=10.1371/journal.pntd.0002256

    PLOS neglected tropical diseases
    Atypical Human Infections by Animal Trypanosomes
    • Philippe Truc ,
    • Philippe Büscher,
    • Gérard Cuny,
    • Mary Isabel Gonzatti,
    • Jean Jannin,
    • Prashant Joshi,
    • Prayag Juyal,
    • Zhao-Rong Lun,
    • Raffaele Mattioli,
    • Etienne Pays,
    • Pere P. Simarro,
    • Marta Maria Geraldes Teixeira,
    • Louis Touratier,
    • Philippe Vincendeau,
    • Marc Desquesnes

    The two classical forms of human trypanosomoses are sleeping sickness due to Trypanosoma brucei gambiense or T. brucei rhodesiense, and Chagas disease due to T. cruzi. However, a number of atypical human infections caused by other T. species (or sub-species) have been reported, namely due to T. brucei brucei, T. vivax, T. congolense, T. evansi, T. lewisi, and T. lewisi-like. These cases are reviewed here. Some infections were transient in nature, while others required treatments that were successful in most cases, although two cases were fatal. A recent case of infection due to T. evansi was related to a lack of apolipoprotein L-I, but T. lewisiinfections were not related to immunosuppression or specific human genetic profiles. Out of 19 patients, eight were confirmed between 1974 and 2010, thanks to improved molecular techniques. However, the number of cases of atypical human trypanosomoses might be underestimated. Thus, improvement, evaluation of new diagnostic tests, and field investigations are required for detection and confirmation of these atypical cases.
     
  14. junkcrap50

    junkcrap50 Established Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    130
    Damn near everyone has gotten chigger bites if they've ever walked out in the grass.
     
    Melanie and adambeyoncelowe like this.
  15. ScottTriGuy

    ScottTriGuy Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    692
    Likes Received:
    6,317
    Location:
    Toronto
    The first time I heard of 'chiggers' was visiting a small village in Malawi and the community members had collectively purchased 2 pigs - but they didn't have rubber boots to wear to feed and tend to the pigs and protect them from chiggers - all they needed to buy one pair of rubber boots for them to share, was my pocket change. It was yet another sobering lesson in the vast disparity in income.

    I didn't get sick with ME until about 6 years later, so doubt chiggers are my trigger.
     
  16. TiredSam

    TiredSam Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    9,035
    Likes Received:
    44,428
    Location:
    Germany
    My ME started during a trip to England 4.5 years ago. I remember the exact moment - I was sitting in a pub drinking a pint of cider and felt a sharp pain in my throat. That hung around for a few days, I assumed it was an infection, then flu, then weeks of headaches and exhaustion, the rest is history. With hindsight there were a few occasions before that which I now think may have been ME related, but that final trigger happened in England.
     
    Atle, sb4, MeSci and 10 others like this.
  17. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,358
    Likes Received:
    23,240
    Will all those who wish to take part in the trial to establish whether drinking pints of cider increases the chance of succumbing to ME, or worsens the chance of recovery from it, please form an orderly queue?
     
    Sing, Pechius, pteropus and 20 others like this.
  18. arewenearlythereyet

    arewenearlythereyet Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    2,092
    Likes Received:
    15,090
    Can I be a control with red wine?
     
    Pechius, Daisy, Graham and 16 others like this.
  19. Londinium

    Londinium Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    254
    Likes Received:
    2,517
    Yep, mine was during a work trip to India (though it wasn't my first trip there and I'd been to quite a few other developing nations previously). I'm not sure this points to a specific infection though, rather that we already know that ME/CFS seems to be brought on after a general assault on the immune system. Travel to a new country exposes you a a huge number of new pathogens to which you have no acquired immunity (we joke about 'Delhi belly', but when my Indian colleagues come to the UK we normally lose a few to head colds that lay them low for days when the average European would just get the sniffles). I think it is the general exposure to lots of new bugs that might explain anecdotal links of ME/CFS and travel rather than a specific infectious vector.
     
  20. Stuart79

    Stuart79 New Member

    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    23
    Just thinking out loud, I wonder what happens to your gut microbiome when you are suddenly exposed to foreign food, water, and whatever else might impact the microbiome in a country like India.
     
    dannybex, MeSci, Melanie and 2 others like this.

Share This Page