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Reading words incorrectly

Discussion in 'Neurological/Cognitive: Brain Fog, Concentration' started by DokaGirl, Nov 30, 2018.

  1. DokaGirl

    DokaGirl Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I often read words incorrectly. This was rare to non-existent prior to ME. Now, it often happens, and causes a whole new, and incorrect meaning for what I'm reading. I may think/see a word as one that looks similar to what is actually there, but it's not actually the right word.

    I usually realize I've misinterpreted something, and have to read and re-read to get it right. Anyone else find this happens?
     
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  2. obeat

    obeat Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  3. fds

    fds Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    Yes, I find that happens when I am reading
     
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  4. SallyC

    SallyC Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Yes, a lot!
     
  5. Peter Trewhitt

    Peter Trewhitt Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    There are a number of possible levels of deficit that can cause problems reading.

    It could be due to problems in visual perception, be it problems with the eye itself or the brain's processing of visual signals. If this were the case any problems would effect all vision, not just reading. So problems recognising written words might also be accompanied by problems recognising objects. Having said that in the past people have looked specific visual processing deficits in developmental dyslexia, that by their nature disproportionately effect the spatial frequencies of text. However though this disproportionately might seem to effect reading, it should also effect other things like pattern recognition and be helped by things like different text size. I suspect this is not what @DokaGirl is experiencing.

    Alternatively it could be at the level of processing written language. Here it is interesting to ask is it a focal problem in the reading system or indicative of a general disruption of brain function. Is it just part of brain fog, when you would expect problems with other systems, eg language processing in general, so problems understanding spoken language as well as written language or other unrelated systems such as face recognition or navigation. It is possible to get false focal effects from a generalised deficit such as say reduced channel capacity or limited attention band width.

    A good example of this might be that an novice musician when tired could have problems with playing their musical instrument, but not with their proficient driving of a car. So it is not that they have focal musical problems, rather that their limited playing requires more brain capacity than their practised driving, so is more vulnerable to any generalised reduction in brain functioning. That @DokaGirl raises this issue, suggests she feels her reading problems are more specific than just generalised brain fog. Also for most of us reading is a highly practised skill, so in theory less vulnerable to general brain processing issues. A good comparator might be writing; for most people written language is less practiced than reading, so a generalised brain processing issue might be expected to disprortionately impact on writing rather than reading.

    Finally a problem with reading could be specific to the reading system. In general acquired specific focal cognitive deficit would be interpreted by a neurologist or neuropsychologist a problem in the specific brain area mediating that activity.

    (Sorry perhaps here on I am getting less clear.)

    In relation to myself I find interesting to try to examine whether my cognitive problems are focal or general.

    I have problems with reading too. I have not managed to read a book for a number of years though previously I would read two or three a week. I can not rule out that eyesight plays a role, because I have not been able to get to an optician's over the last few years I no longer have glasses of an appropriate prescription, but that is not a sufficient explaination. I am also very aware of difficulties reading text that requires integrating information between lines or even paragraphs, so with academic materials I may have to read a chapter four or five times and still then struggle. This may be a more general information processing load problem or a working memory problem, rather than a specific reading problem. However I do not seem to have an analogous difficulty in understanding spoken language, say a TV documentary. So I am unsure if this is a focal reading issue or a generalised processing deficit.

    I further have problems with technical vocabulary including new words. So I can with concentration follow a psychology text as my first degrees were in this field, but I am completely unable to understand an article on the immune system as I fail completely to learn the new vocabulary needed.

    In English this does not seem to be mirrored by problems with spoken language, but I do have specific problems with foreign languages. I find it almost impossible to learn new vocabulary, I failed completely in Japan some five or six years ago to learn any every day phrases. In languages I previously spoke, albeit it badly, vocabulary has become jumbled, so when speaking German I will insert French or Gaelic words without realising what I am doing. In French which was always worse than my German I find it virtually impossible now to complete a sentence without inserting words from other languages. It is as if the divisions in my various lexicons have been removed, and I just have a storage area of undifferentiated 'foreign' words.

    In navigation I believe I have unambiguously focal deficits. I used to have a good sense of direction, most mammals have a specific area of magnetic material at the base of the scull at the back, which is hypothesised to be a sense organ for direction. Humans have very varying ability to sense geomagnetic directions, however I used to be good at this but have lost it completely. Over and above this I experience episodes of what I describe as 'jamais vu'. In places I know well I have no idea of where I am. I have at these times lost my mental map. I may be able to remember verbally that I turn right at the post box and so give myself some directions. This may only last a few moments or the worst left me resting in the car for two hours, and it is also linked to the current severity of my ME. It can be overcome by always having my SatNav on when I am driving.

    My conclusion here is that I have a focal loss of my sense of direction, but further my internal mapping system is also intermittently vulnerable to transient effects, perhaps something like a varying blood supply to the brain.

    General processing deficits, presumably generalised effects of our ME on the brain, seem to be intermittent and so hopefully are reversible. However it is not clear if there are focal deficits if these would be reversible.

    I have not had a brain scan, so can not say if there is any focal damage in the specific areas involved.
     
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  6. Peter Trewhitt

    Peter Trewhitt Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    In terms of specific words again the problems could relate to eyesight, visual processing or at a language level of word recognition.

    @DokaGirl, are you aware of having a preferred reading strategy, some people tend to read by converting the written form mentally into sounds, so getting to meaning via an integral representation of the spoken word, where as others rely more on recognising the whole word as a symbol and going straight to meaning from there, similar to the understanding of a Chinese character? Different reading strategies make you differentials vulnerable to different word recognition errors. For example if you get to meaning via symbol recognition, you might be able to compensate for any word recognition errors by reading aloud.

    Do you have any analogous problems with understanding specific words in spoken languages? For example last week, some one was trying to persuade me to attend a charity lunch at 'Hopton Hall' but I understood her to have said 'Tissington Hall' (both in different directions). We then had a very strange conversation, talking at cross purposes, until I realised my mistake.
     
  7. Unable

    Unable Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    For me, I found I suddenly started typing the wrong version of similar sounding words. I never had this problem prior to ME.

    Things like:
    There - their - they’re
    Too - to - two
    Our - are

    @Peter Trewhitt - I definitely read by converting the words I see into sounds. Perhaps, that might explain my ME problem of writing similar sounding words as the wrong version. Some part of the processing is now being short-cut?

    Re: The place thing. I’ve done that too. It’s like the mental image of the place retrieved is as a different place, and then not corrected. Until I’m pushed on it, then of course I know which place is which. And I can’t believe I got it so wrong!
     
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  8. Arnie Pye

    Arnie Pye Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I do this too, and it upsets me a lot. The word that I type is essentially random. Others I've found myself getting wrong are pear/pair and you/your (although you/your isn't a homophone).
     
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  9. DokaGirl

    DokaGirl Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Thank you @Peter Trewhitt for your comments and questions.

    My feeling is that reading the wrong word for me, is separate from brain fog; it could happen when I'm more fatigued, or perhaps my OI has some involvement.

    I'm not sure what my preferred reading style is. Guessing, I would say I hear the word as I read it.

    I find it difficult to multitask the senses. Maybe that has something to do with this. I said on another thread, if I am trying to change the channel on the TV, I have to mute the sound.

    I sometimes hear the wrong word, and say the wrong word. I've read that pwME may say the wrong word, e.g. they might say they're cold when they are actually feeling hot.

    I have problems with scanning reading material, my comprehension doesn't keep up with my scanning, so much of what I've read if I've tried to read quickly, doesn't make sense.

    Sometimes spoken words can be confusing if this is in combination with new and complex concepts, directions etc., or if I'm more fatigued. Reduced thinking speed also interferes with comprehension, hearing the correct word, and not sure, but possiby with reading the correct word.

    It's difficult to sort out the deficits, and which comes first; maybe it's circular.
    I'm not sure if I answered all your questions. Thank you very much for your interesting comments!
     
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  10. DokaGirl

    DokaGirl Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    @Peter Trewhitt, I mentioned on another thread, I sometimes combine two words when speaking. It seems when I am saying one word, and thinking about the next word, I sometimes end up combining the two.
     
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  11. DokaGirl

    DokaGirl Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  12. Arnie Pye

    Arnie Pye Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I've done this too! Some time ago I was asked what I wanted to drink. I got muddled and tried to say sparkling water and fizzy water at the same time. The words coming out of my mouth were "spizzy water".
     
  13. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Yup, i have had to get used to it :cry:
     
  14. fds

    fds Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    Yes, spoken language too. If I'm tired then sometimes what people are saying to be makes no sense or it just goes over my head and I realise that I haven't taken any of it in.

    For me speaking the two things most common are completely forgetting a word. I go to the pigeonhole where the word lives and it's gone, empty. Later on it will be there again. Also I subsititute random words when I'm talking, there is often some vague connection but sometimes completely random. Makes for amusement for my family.

    I have a problem typing too and I read and read it over after I've finished and still miss mistakes.

    Ugh
     
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  15. Unable

    Unable Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I remember reading about how ME peeps have difficulties with eye focus. Especially when tracking a moving object. (Wonder might scanning across words in a sentence also give same issue?)

    Anyway I googled and found this, which I think is the one I read before.
    http://irep.ntu.ac.uk/id/eprint/25859/1/221920_3205preprint.pdf
     
  16. Rosie

    Rosie Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I'm pretty good with too - to, but lately have had to question whether I did use them correctly.

    A few years ago I completely lost the recognition of bear as in bear a load. All I could see was the animal (bear) whenever I read the word bear. Recognition still hasn't come back completely but it doesn't seem as strange.
     
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  17. DokaGirl

    DokaGirl Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Yes, @fds. After I type something, I check and maybe re-check, and I still miss mistakes. I have learned to read my typed words out loud, and can often pick up more errors that way. It is bothersome though, to have to do this all the time.
     
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  18. TiredSam

    TiredSam Moderator Staff Member

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    Me too, I've only noticed it recently. I've always been meticulous about spelling, but recently I've found that after writing a post and reading it over one last time, I find things like "here" instead of "hear" etc. I think it's getting worse. I spelt a word with a "y" instead of an "i" a couple of days ago. Wish I could remember what it was.

    EDIT: it was hypocrytical. I mean hippocritical.
     
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  19. Unable

    Unable Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Know I’m totalli confusticated - nyther spieling looks ryght to mi?? :arghh::wtf::facepalm::confused:
     
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  20. TiredSam

    TiredSam Moderator Staff Member

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    Eye dont no watt yew mean.
     
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