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Maureen Hanson talk at OMF Symposium 2019

Discussion in 'BioMedical ME/CFS Research' started by Sarah94, Sep 8, 2019.

  1. Sarah94

    Sarah94 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Why does Hanson now think that it's a virus? I thought the researchers had moved away from that idea.

    Anyone who was there or has watched the talk (I can't) - @Michiel Tack @Wilhelmina Jenkins @Ben H - did she say why she thinks it's a virus?

    I'm confused because I thought that OMF were focusing on the metabolic trap theory. Why are they simultaneously promoting the idea that it's a metabolic trap and the idea that it's a "genius virus"?
     
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  2. duncan

    duncan Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Also, check out Hillary Johnson's twitter on Hanson's conclusions. Lots of excitement in that group.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
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  3. Wilhelmina Jenkins

    Wilhelmina Jenkins Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    I think that different researchers, even within the same network have different theories. You could see that at the conference. And none of the theories have been proven yet, so it’s a question of putting all theories on the table and doing the work to see what hold true. We just don’t know yet.
     
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  4. Mij

    Mij Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    @Sarah94 as someone who has been around the ME community for almost 3 decades, I can tell you that this is nothing new. It just becomes circular, unfortunately.
     
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  5. Sarah94

    Sarah94 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Well that's just depressing.
     
  6. duncan

    duncan Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Don't let it be. If it is circular, keep in mind what goes around comes around. This talk of infectious eatiology also early on took hold with MS. Then it fell out of popularity and was replaced by an autoimmune theory. Now there is talk once again - after 5 decades - of an infectious cause at play behind MS.

    So, although the return to a viral cause for ME/CFS may have a deja vu feel to it, that does not change its potential import. Still, the onus is on Hanson and her supporters to prove it this time.

    Personally, I like it when anyone stops focusing on downstream effects, and concentrates on the source. It's refreshing.
     
  7. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Yep
     
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  8. Forbin

    Forbin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I think they'd be on safer ground claiming that it's triggered by an "exposure" to something. That would cover viruses, bacteria, parasites and fungi, as well as things like toxins - all of which could occur in a localized "outbreak." I believe the leading theory on GWI is toxic exposure (which might include some of the vaccines that the soldiers received).
     
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  9. duncan

    duncan Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I don't think they are talking trigger at all. I think they are speculating about an active infection, one that years ago caused outbreaks, but is now endemic in many places.
     
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  10. Binkie4

    Binkie4 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  11. Stuart

    Stuart Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    Context matter of course, what was being said or what was being shown on screen when 'genius virus' was mentioned? Or was it heard wrong, might it have been 'genus virus?'
    ...
    Based upon the HJ tweet thread it seems that it is one 'clever' enough to hide, then a question to her about 'foolish vs genius virus,' how EBV fits role as 'genius' one.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
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  12. Stuart

    Stuart Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    This however seems less ambiguous:

    "I suspect there is a central cause of the disease, I agree with Maureen....ultimately we want to figure out what that organism is and get rid of it. Many people are trying to sort that out." Ron Davis
     
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  13. Stuart

    Stuart Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    And how else to interpret this? 'Courageous' and calling a 'spade a spade' implies saying some uncomfortable truth telling.

    "I loved Mareen's courageous talk. I loved that she called a spade a spade..." Ron Davis
     
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  14. Stuart

    Stuart Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    A discussion of the history of outbreaks fitting Ramsey's definition and the current patient symptoms, they are the same disease with variations in the virus, that this is now endemic (autoimmune / genetic disorders don't go 'endemic'), and significantly why else would there be the statement:


    Maureen Hanson: we need to tell the public that they need to worry about ME
     
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  15. mariovitali

    mariovitali Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I am not sure i got right what Maureen Hanson suggests. She hypothesises that there is a virus that hides very well -thus we cannot find it- and is responsible for ME symptoms ?

    If this is so, the unknown virus activates after other infections (e.g EBV ) take place? And what about patients that got ME after a medication or during a highly stressful period ?
     
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  16. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Is it clear to anyone how these "genius" viruses, if that is what was said, differ from John Martin's old idea of "stealth" viruses? He seems to have been largely ignored. Were his ideas properly independently tested before they were dismissed?
     
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  17. lansbergen

    lansbergen Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Any stressor can make it worse. Anyone might be infected but the immune system can keep it in check. Then a stressor strikes and it reveals.

     
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  18. andypants

    andypants Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I thought her point was that whatever it is that triggers ME it is very “clever” in that it makes us very ill but leaves us looking healthy most of the time, meaning no one worries about catching ME because it doesn’t look real/scary. So no one bothers trying to find or fight whatever the trigger is, leaving it to wreck havoc in peace.

    The virus or whatever is a genius for successfully making us very ill while convincing everyone one else that it doesn’t exist, including either disappearing after triggering or hiding where no one can find it.

    Just my interpretation of what she said. Looking forward to seeing it again with fresh eyes, I was very tired the first time.
     
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  19. Stuart

    Stuart Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    Do we have any examples of this?

    Well this comes to mind.
    ________________________________________


    XMRV infection of Rhesus macaques
    17 February 2011

    The first detailed study of infection of nonhuman primates with the retrovirus XMRV reveals that the virus establishes a persistent infection characterized by infection of multiple tissues. Viremia (virus in the blood) is low and transient, with proviral DNA detectable in blood lymphocytes. The results show that the Rhesus macaque can be used to study XMRV infection, transmission, vaccines, and antiviral drugs.

    Onlamoon, N, DasGupta, J, Sharma, P, Rogers, K, Suppiah, S, Rhea, J, Molinaro, RJ, Gaughan, C, Dong, B, Klein, E, Qui, X, Devare, S, Schochetman, G, Hackett, J, Silverman, R, & Villinger, F (2011). Infection, viral dissemination and antibody responses of Rhesus macaques exposed to the human gammaretrovirus XMRV Journal of Virology

    http://www.virology.ws/2011/02/17/xmrv-infection-of-rhesus-macaques/comment-page-1/
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 12, 2019
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  20. Mij

    Mij Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Are you familiar with the history of John Martin? He is a fraud, there is no such a thing as a 'stealth virus'- it was his own creation.

    A good friend of mine was watching NBC news when reporters tracked him down and tried to interview him in his driveway to confront him about his bogus lab (which was shut down btw), and he literally ran out of shoes into his house.
     
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