1. Sign our petition calling on Cochrane to withdraw their review of Exercise Therapy for CFS here.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Guest, the 'News in Brief' for the week beginning 15th April 2024 is here.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Welcome! To read the Core Purpose and Values of our forum, click here.
    Dismiss Notice

Her Doctor Said Her Illness Was All in Her Head. This Scientist Was Determined to Find the Truth. NYT

Discussion in 'Other health news and research' started by Jaybee00, Mar 15, 2023.

  1. Jaybee00

    Jaybee00 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,894
  2. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,926
    Location:
    Aotearoa New Zealand
    Maybe this reluctance to intervene on feeding issues is a broader problem than the UK and ME/CFS.

    And we already know the psychosomatic ideas run wild and free across the broad expanse of medical problems. Some of the content in this article is staggering though.
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2023
  3. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,926
    Location:
    Aotearoa New Zealand
    The answer seems to be a gene that results in higher levels of GDF15.

    And, wow
    Circulating levels of GDF15 in patients with myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome, 2019
    Forum thread here:
    Circulating levels of GDF15 in patients with myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome, 2019, Melvin, Lacerda, Nacul et al
    I haven't read beyond the abstract yet.
     
  4. Sean

    Sean Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    7,208
    Location:
    Australia
    Gosh, aren't women in the 21st century so lucky that kind of attitude no longer exists, and that being female is no longer seen as predisposing to hysterical conversion.

    Oh wait, it does...

    :mad:
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2023
  5. Laurie P

    Laurie P Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    178
    Location:
    New England, USA
     
  6. Sean

    Sean Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    7,208
    Location:
    Australia
    I can't get this out of my head. It is horrifying.

    If you wanted to make an already very bad, indeed potentially fatal, situation a lot worse this is how to do it. Even if it doesn't kill the patient it is going to do horrendous and probably long-term harm to both her physical and (ironically) her mental health, including generating a huge and sadly justified fear and distrust of doctors.

    I say 'patient'. There are, of course, two patients in this situation: the mother and the baby.

    WTF is wrong with the medical profession? At this level of sustained systemic failure there is no practical difference between wilful ignorance, profound incompetence, and psychopathic cruelty.
     
  7. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,926
    Location:
    Aotearoa New Zealand
    A short bit of googling of papers about hyperemesis in pregnancy in this century proved to be sufficiently horrifying that I stopped doing it. It's madness, and I'm not talking about the vomiting women.

    Fertile ground for another blog @ME/CFS Skeptic.
     
  8. Midnattsol

    Midnattsol Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    3,599
    Yes. In Norway though pregnancy removes the requirement of a nutrition problem lasting "a substantial time" before one can get oral nutrient supplementation on prescription. So at least those guidelines are possible to point to here.

    It makes me so mad the whole thing. And thinking about the women gaslit who go on to gaslit other women because that's what they've been told is the right thing to do :(
     
    alktipping, lycaena, Laurie P and 7 others like this.
  9. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    26,926
    Location:
    Aotearoa New Zealand
    There are some great comments under the article.

    One of the comments is from a woman who was put in a dark room with no sound, but it was because any sort of stimulation made her feel ill. So, possibly some of the dark room stuff was because it was helpful. I find it a bit intriguing that the symptoms bear some similarity to those of people with very severe ME/CFS. That 2019 paper looking at GDF15 in ME/CFS found a positive relationship between ME/CFS severity and GDF15 levels.
     
  10. obeat

    obeat Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    682
    "Recent research on the GDF15–GFRAL axis has focused on its anorectic action and suggests that it acts as a mediator of the physiological responses to visceral malaise states such as the induction of food aversion, nausea, and emesis preceding the onset of anorexia, as shown in different rodent models and shrews [31,40,41,42]. This fits with the well-known actions of the hindbrain AP in the control of nausea and vomiting [43] beside its role as a control center of food intake [44]."

    A quote from this paper

    https://www.mdpi.com/2073-4409/10/11/2990
     
    Michelle, Laurie P, DokaGirl and 6 others like this.
  11. JemPD

    JemPD Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,974
    Gosh, this is appalling i had heard of HG from when Kate (duchess of Cambridge) had it (i wonder if doctors told her she was attention seeking - i doubt it!
    But i had no idea it was one of the 'considered psychosomatic' things. This is shocking but unsurprising. It affects women & doctors dont understand it - that should be next to the dictionary definition of psychosomatic.
    I've never been pregnanti know when my own nausea is bad (this is ME nausea, very rare instances of motion sickness as a child/adult & when i had gastroenteritis/norovirus/food poisoning), i always had to have dimly lit silence. I vividly remember on all those occasions begging those around me to go away/give me silence because sound would make me vomit. And that was all long before any ME-related sensory sensitivities came about.

    Its abuse if you dont want it & clearly removing a person's phone & denying them visitors is abusive, but for some the sensory relief may have been a blessing - one wonders if that only reinforced the stupid psych ideas - being alone & no stimulation helps... ergo....

    It never ceases to amaze me the utter stupidity of some doctors. Its inexcusable
     
    EzzieD, Wits_End, alktipping and 8 others like this.
  12. ME/CFS Skeptic

    ME/CFS Skeptic Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,511
    Location:
    Belgium
    Thanks for tagging me @Hutan.

    I agree this is a good example that would fit well in the dark history of psychosomatic medicine. The blog is currently on hold due to health and other reasons (there are still a lot of stories on our list to write about). I hope to continue it somewhere in the future and take a closer look at hyperemesis.
     
    Arnie Pye, Michelle, EzzieD and 15 others like this.
  13. ME/CFS Skeptic

    ME/CFS Skeptic Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,511
    Location:
    Belgium
    "And, Dr. Fejzo hopes, it could finally put to rest the idea that the condition is psychological. "

    I wonder how those who accuse ME/CFS patients of dualism would respond to that.
     
    EzzieD, alktipping, lycaena and 9 others like this.
  14. oldtimer

    oldtimer Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    646
    Location:
    Melbourne Australia
    I had hyperemesis in the late 1970s. I was so ill one day I called a locum who told me with great impatience that I just had morning sickness. The next day I ended up in hospital on a drip.

    Apart from the first doctor, I was taken seriously as far as I know and treated appropriately.
     
  15. RedFox

    RedFox Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,245
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    It still shouldn't take two doctors.
     
  16. Peter Trewhitt

    Peter Trewhitt Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,669
    My first thought is that some medical professionals are so fixated on the correctness of their ideas, that they are willing to inflict what amounts to torture on their patients in order to ‘help’ them. In terms of a therapeutic model this is no different to the Inquisition inflicting torture and even sanctioned murder on their supposed heretics in order to save their immortal soul. With the Inquisition they believed that the Church had privileged access to a higher truth that justified inflicting whatever was necessary on those they were trying to help. In parallel in this example we see doctors believing their access to a higher truth justifies ignoring their patients reported symptoms and lived experience.

    In terms of managing heresy the Inquisition saw it as inherently contagious, just as some of the believers in psychosomatics see hysteria as contagious through social transmission.
     
    Michelle, EzzieD, boolybooly and 14 others like this.
  17. DokaGirl

    DokaGirl Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,664
    Wonderful this dedicated and very determined scientist has found the physiological cause of this.

    Wow, often people have to figuratively climb mountains for years in order to get to the answer. This definitely applies to "women's issues".

    Appalling history regarding this condition. Not surprising though, as women have been treated cruelly for stepping out of the norm, or even just because they are women, for maybe as long as we've had humanity.
     
    alktipping, Sean, Ariel and 4 others like this.
  18. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    12,461
    Location:
    Canada
    The same pattern keeps holding up about everything psychosomatic: it's worse in context, and the more context you add the worst it gets.

    Everything about this ideology is disgusting. It has destroyed millions of lives. And it's massively popular, beloved even. What the hell is wrong with this profession?
     
    DokaGirl, alktipping, Sean and 3 others like this.
  19. Ariel

    Ariel Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    1,057
    Location:
    UK
    I completely agree - but what the hell is wrong with *everyone*? People *love* this narrative about illness - about their own illnesses, even. Someone has managed to sell people on the idea that this validates their trauma. How can we combat this? I see it creeping into conversations, everyday life, the vernacular more and more. It's disturbing and I have no idea how to combat it. Anyone?
     

Share This Page