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FITNET's Internet-based Cognitive Behavioural Therapy is Ineffective... by Ghatineh and Vink

Discussion in 'PsychoSocial ME/CFS Research' started by janice, Mar 9, 2018.

  1. janice

    janice Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Behav Sci (Basel). 2017 Aug 11;7(3). pii: E52. doi: 10.3390/bs7030052.

    FITNET's Internet-Based Cognitive Behavioural Therapy Is Ineffective and May Impede Natural Recovery in Adolescents with Myalgic Encephalomyelitis/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome. A Review.
    Ghatineh S1, Vink M2.
    Author information
    1 Biochemist, London TW11, UK. siminghatinehdr@gmail.com.
    2 Soerabaja Research Center, 1096 HH Amsterdam, The Netherlands. markvink.md@outlook.com.
    Abstract
    The Dutch Fatigue In Teenagers on the interNET (FITNET) study claimed that after 6 months, internet based cognitive behaviour therapy in adolescents with Myalgic Encephalomyelitis/Chronic Fatigue Syndrome (ME/CFS), led to a 63% recovery rate compared to 8% after usual care, and that this was maintained at long term follow up (LTFU).

    Our reanalysis shows that their post-hoc definition of recovery included the severely ill, the unblinded trial had no adequate control group and it used lax selection criteria as well as outcomes assessed via questionnaires rather than objective outcomes, further contributing to exaggerated recovery figures.

    Their decision not to publish the actometer results might suggest that these did not back their recovery claims.

    Despite these bias creating methodological faults, the trial still found no significant difference in recovery rates ("~60%") at LTFU, the trial's primary goal.

    This is similar to or worse than the documented 54-94% spontaneous recovery rates within 3-4 years, suggesting that both FITNET and usual care (consisting of cognitive behaviour and graded exercise therapies) are ineffective and might even impede natural recovery in adolescents with ME/CFS.

    This has implications for the upcoming costly NHS FITNET trial which is a blueprint of the Dutch study, exposing it to similar biases."


    This seems very good news to me. Or am I being over-optimistic?
     
  2. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

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    Not sure why thread title omitted Ghatineh as there were only 2 authors and she is the lead??
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2018
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  3. adreno

    adreno Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    They pulled another PACE.
     
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  4. Andy

    Andy Committee Member (& Outreach when energy allows)

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    No, I haven't, that I can recall. More than happy for someone else to do that as my to-do list grows by the day.
     
  5. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Last edited: Mar 9, 2018
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  6. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

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    So is Simin Ghatineh

    Edit to correct surname- apologies
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2018
  7. janice

    janice Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Apologies about that.
    I had only heard of Vink and it caught my eye as a massive change in tune.
    I'm afraid I've never heard of Gatineh, the lead author as you say.
    No disrespect intended, just my own ignorance.
     
  8. Londinium

    Londinium Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Are you thinking about Vogt rather than Vink? Mark Vink has written highly critical commentary on the PACE trial as part of the JHP special issue and his criticism of CBT is in line with previous work. Whereas Vogt has been critical of metabolomic approaches to ME/CFS and is a fan of magic circles.
     
  9. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    Or Per Fink?
     
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  10. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

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    Can you edit the title?
     
  11. Joh

    Joh Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I think there's another Dutch BPS-Vink, that might explain the confusion. But this Mark Vink is (as is Simin Ghatineh) a very severe bedbound pwME (who used to be a doctor): http://me-pedia.org/wiki/Mark_Vink
     
  12. janice

    janice Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Yes @Londinium , I've got it wrong again.......Doh!
    @Hutan, yes may be that too.
    Perhaps it's best just to delete this whole thread so I don't embarrass myself more.
    Apologies I seem to have got a bit carried away and caused some confusion.
    Please delete thread. It is not helpful.
     
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  13. Hutan

    Hutan Moderator Staff Member

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    I've edited the title for now. @janice, the thread is useful. I've PM'd you about options for editing.

    I've been confused with the Vinks and Per Fink - I'm sure many people are too. If you want to leave the discussion about that, it will help clarify things for lots of people. Or we can edit those posts if you prefer; that's fine too.
     
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  14. Adrian

    Adrian Administrator Staff Member

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    @Docsimsim has just joined here as well.
     
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  15. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    No, it's a good thread :).
     
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  16. AndyPandy

    AndyPandy Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    @Londinium

    "a fan of magic circles"

    Thank you for making me laugh. I needed that today.
     
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  17. Nancy Blake

    Nancy Blake Established Member

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    On the Vink v per Fink confusion, per Fink is the Danish psychiatrist responsible for the dreadful abuse of Karina Hanson, who was taken from her home by police and forced to do GET until she became totally disabled, and has been returned home. Per Fink is advised by Wessely and White. Denmark, under their influence, removed the medical classification of ME altogether, replaced it with ‘Bodily Distress Syndrome’, and has put all ME people under the power of the Danish psychiatrists.

    Vink is a competely different kettle of fish, having published more than one piece of research indicating that CBT/GET are harmful.

    Moderator note: The posts (and part-posts) about NLP, while interesting, are a diversion from the topic of this thread. A new thread for the NLP discussion has been created here and relevant content has been transferred.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 11, 2018
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  18. Joh

    Joh Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I think it's well known around here who Per Fink is, but there are also other Vink (so I have to always double-check which Vink when I see a Dutch study with Vink in it).
     
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  19. janice

    janice Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Yes plainly I need to check out the facts behind my ideas more carefully.:angel:

    @Nancy Blake , thank you for giving me the info to help with my Vink confusion. Very useful to me.:thumbup:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 11, 2018
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  20. Docsimsim

    Docsimsim Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    Both Mark Vink and myself (Simin Ghatineh) are severe ME sufferers and part of the group of scientists trying to debunk CBT/GET, PACE, FITNET, SMILE, and all their offshoots. Mark is too ill to join this forum atm and i’ve only just joined this week
    Hi everyone
     
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