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David Tuller: Trial By Error: More Mayo, Please

Discussion in 'General ME/CFS News' started by Kalliope, Aug 20, 2018.

  1. Kalliope

    Kalliope Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Trial By Error: More Mayo, Please

    This sort of willful ignorance on the part of leading medical institutions like Mayo, while not uncommon when it comes to the illness currently called ME/CFS by federal agencies, is nonetheless dismaying.
     
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  2. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  3. dave30th

    dave30th Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Wow, I don't think I could take that much happiness and joy!
     
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  4. Sean

    Sean Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    *sigh*

    Don't you just love their certainty. : unamused:
     
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  5. arewenearlythereyet

    arewenearlythereyet Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    So annoying ...even if you put aside the garbage content ....the tone is so patronising.
     
  6. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    More Mayo
    ...is nonetheless dismaying.


    I didn't know David did bad jokes as well.

    Does that make Knoop 'Hollandaise' and Monaghan 'HP sauce'.
     
  7. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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    Blimey, Mayo really have turned into quack central:

    The blurb about the handbook includes:
    Where's that tripe picture when we need it.
     
  8. Snowdrop

    Snowdrop Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I'd wager, despite the lofty reputation of the Mayo (well deserved in some respects) this is not the first time they've embraced woo. Fads come and go. This one I think started with Jon Kabat Zinn and his work studying Matthieu Richard.

    Their hearts are in the right place but the work that all this is built on is not substantial. It takes a complex social problem and distills it down into a simple formula that is solely the responsibility of the individual.

    Mayo has drunk deeply of this particular kool-aid. But I think it really is a passing fancy. I just don't know for how long (or if we can hurry it's demise).

    It seems to be a stellar example of how even as science progresses the seductiveness of woo has a siren cry that even those who should know better can't resist. Maybe it's also an example of how desperate ill people can be forgiven for thinking some snake oil medicine might just work for what ails them, after all the Mayo can cure us of malign vapours that overcome us.
     
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  9. MeSci

    MeSci Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I wonder what they consider "frequently talking about symptoms”? Isn't that what a patient is supposed to talk about with a health professional?
     
  10. arewenearlythereyet

    arewenearlythereyet Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    87F9E9A3-8C8E-454D-8454-0E1489B5536C.jpeg
     
  11. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: ... :)

    Edit: Or Edwards 'King'?
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2018
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  12. Tom Kindlon

    Tom Kindlon Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  13. Webdog

    Webdog Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    You find this positive psychology nonsense all over Kaiser Permanente as well. That maintaining a certain mindset has measurable effects on physical health.

    It's probably just a matter of time before Kaiser Permanente publishes a handbook.

    Optimism:
    https://thrive.kaiserpermanente.org...ll/become-an-optimist-and-improve-your-health

    Forgiveness:
    https://share.kaiserpermanente.org/article/health-benefits-forgiveness/

    Gratitude:
    https://wa-health.kaiserpermanente.org/gratitude-benefits/

    As James Coyne insightfully points out in a blog post about gratitude, these religious concepts are disguised patient-shaming:
    https://www.coyneoftherealm.com/blo...ssing-gratitude-improves-your-physical-health
     
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2018
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  14. arewenearlythereyet

    arewenearlythereyet Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Wow ....gratitude and forgiveness....it’s almost like we are regressing to the mediaeval where psychiatry is a new form of oppressive religion to keep the peasants in line...perhaps the next stage is to burn non-compliant patients at the stake for being heretics.
     
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  15. Sean

    Sean Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    They can shove their demand for bogus acts of gratitude and forgiveness where the sun never shines.

    I can't tell you how much I loathe the positive psych movement, in all its epistemologically and morally bankrupt forms. Always have, since long before I got ME. They are the worst of the lot.

    Always try to make the best of your situation? Sure, perfectly good generic life advice to give to your child. But any further than that is sinking quickly into sophistry, self-delusion, and shamelessly preying upon the desperate.
     
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  16. Suffolkres

    Suffolkres Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    If you didn't talk about it and focused on other things, you would be accused of,"Persuasive Refusal Syndrome"....really, the patient is damned if they do and damned if they don't.
     
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  17. Inara

    Inara Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    We're already "burnt", although metaphorically. And I agree - exactly this is psychiatry's job in my view.
     
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  18. Tom Kindlon

    Tom Kindlon Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  19. dreampop

    dreampop Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    There was just a blog post on PR about the Mayo Clinic [Jacksonville campus]

     
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  20. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

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