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Changes in circulating microRNA after recumbent isometric yoga practice by patients with ME/CFS: pilot study, 2019, Takakura,Oka,Sudo

Discussion in 'Psychosomatic research - ME/CFS and Long Covid' started by Sly Saint, Dec 2, 2019.

  1. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    UK
    https://link.springer.com/article/10.1186/s13030-019-0171-2

    eta: surprisingly 'tailored' to ME symptoms but uses CFQ
     
  2. Mij

    Mij Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    8,204
    These are the poses taylored for M.E:
    upload_2019-12-2_8-55-1.png
     
  3. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    4,602
    Have they compared the results with those who practise just "a" and "h"?
     
  4. ladycatlover

    ladycatlover Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Chalder scale. Useless.
     
  5. NelliePledge

    NelliePledge Moderator Staff Member

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    UK West Midlands
    To be fair if I was settled in my house rather than in the process of moving out/in and various refurbishment activities and all the unavoidable physical activity that goes with that I would be likely to be able to manage to do this sort of exercise. As it’s lying down it looks quite achievable for me although g in particular and i would definitely be too much to start with. Bearing in mind of course I’m mild on good days moderate on worse days.
     
    Invisible Woman and ladycatlover like this.
  6. BruceInOz

    BruceInOz Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Bit pointless without controls.
     
  7. Milo

    Milo Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The bastards didn’t want to get better... :ill:

    6 months of ‘treatment’ at the hospital very much sounds like CBT
     
  8. rvallee

    rvallee Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    12,299
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    It didn't work. Let's try something very similar!
     
  9. ME/CFS Skeptic

    ME/CFS Skeptic Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This is interesting, it's the misinterpretation of the Chalder Fatigue Scale that many suspect occurs in treatment trials:
    This was a study with only 9 participants, so the authors could look at each one of them to see what happened and how to interpret their symptom scores. It could be that the same misinterpretation occurs in larger studies, with nobody noting it.
     
  10. Haveyoutriedyoga

    Haveyoutriedyoga Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Turns out yoga is the answer after all :laugh:
     
  11. inox

    inox Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    A bit of a sidenote, but both this scale and in general questionaires for studies/online studies doesn’t take in conciderstion just how long people can be sick. If you fall sick in youth, ME will usually be a lifelong illness.

    I have given up answering and partisipating so many times, because there is no answer that fits.

    There is no ‘as usual’ that is your healthy self to compare to, when you’ve been sick for decades.

    And this is also a problem when defining recovery. There is no way I can recover to my former self in youth, there are no roles I used to have that I can fill again.

    I’m sure there are studies with both missing and misleading data because of this. And the data that is misleading or missing will be about patients that have been sick the longest.

    I’ve never seen a study trying to collect data on a how the illness developes over years.

    There is always questions about ‘what are your symptoms now’ - but never anyway to report how symptoms have changed and developed over years.

    I’m sorry, don’t know where I’m going with this. Just a bit of a rant I suppose
     
  12. hibiscuswahine

    hibiscuswahine Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    464
    I agree, A big step back to look at why our health is deteriorating over time would be more useful. The BPS crowd can say it is deconditioning or psychological stress but where is the molecular and neurological science to back this up. There is none. Having worked in psych and have ME, I am increasingly wondering if this is neurovascular disorder.

    As for yoga, the mitochondria is using the RNA to make cell outputs all the time. We need to know the mechanism for the oxidative stress that is being generated by the ME disease process. Current research has shown some supplements change the metabolomics of a cell and the epigenetic code for mitochondrial RNA but no change in the function for that person.
     
    Hoopoe, Trish, inox and 1 other person like this.
  13. Invisible Woman

    Invisible Woman Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I loved yoga and used to practice regularly.

    As I gradually became more ill I adapted my practice somuch of It could be done lying or seated in the floor with lots of rests and recovery periods.

    Based on my n=1 experience I found that certain yoga positions wiped me out much more quickly than others.

    Take Picture /position I for example. Instead of doing it this wayI might spend a little time in Child's pose instead - you're kneeling, sat back on your heels and fold forward, chest to knees forehead resting on the floor. Or if you're too stiff you stack your fists in front of you and rest your forehead on those.

    This is supposed to be a resting position but I found as I became more ill, positions that compress my abdomen and torso absolutely wipe me out. I suspect the compression is raising my HR and that may be the problem.
     
    Mij, Midnattsol, Trish and 1 other person like this.
  14. Mithriel

    Mithriel Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The fact that Chalder designed a scale and people are willing to use it with "as usual" as part of the question means that they implicitly believe this is a short term disease.

    They continually repeat that most people recover, and imply that everyone would recover if they followed their treatments properly.

    So they see patients who have been ill for less than a year then abandon them yet other researchers are happy to use the scale!
     
    hibiscuswahine and Trish like this.

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