1. Guest, the 'News in Brief' for the week beginning 19th July 2021 is here.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Welcome! To read the Core Purpose and Values of our forum, click here.
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Contribute to feedback on the CDC Evidence Review, for more details click here
    Dismiss Notice

“It Has Come to My Attention…” How Institutional Complaints Procedures are Being Weaponized (article in Quillette)

Discussion in 'PsychoSocial ME/CFS News' started by Woolie, Jun 7, 2018.

  1. Woolie

    Woolie Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,782
    Likes Received:
    19,044
    Came across this article on twitter, and noticed its been retweeted by Michael Sharpe. I suppose he thinks this is the best he can do right now as far as support for his "cause" goes.

    https://quillette.com/2018/05/24/come-attention-institutional-complaints-procedures-weaponized/

    This author of this article - Adam Perkins - is aggrieved by the tactics used by the "left" to discredit his research.
    What he complains about in this article:
    Then this bit:
     
    Lidia, rvallee, ladycatlover and 16 others like this.
  2. Sean

    Sean Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,460
    Likes Received:
    28,910
  3. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,466
    Likes Received:
    23,892
    It seems to be a great shame that Elsevier's expert statistical advice has not been made more widely available. Who knows which other papers might have benefitted from its use?
     
  4. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    9,311
    Likes Received:
    99,521
    Too bad then that Drs Wessely, Sharpe and Co have taken to using exactly these tactics to contact employers of those who have annoyed them. Talk about pots and kettles.

    I was talking to someone recently who said that Ben Goldacre goes in for this sort of thing quite a lot -writing to editors about papers he doesn't like, even writing books about them!

    Poor Mr Perkins seems to have made a right fool of himself here. No doubt his book summarised some fairly uninterpretable data.
     
    Lidia, ladycatlover, Gecko and 13 others like this.
  5. chrisb

    chrisb Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,466
    Likes Received:
    23,892
    What is personality anyway?
     
  6. Woolie

    Woolie Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,782
    Likes Received:
    19,044
    Yea, he sounds like a thoroughly nice guy.
     
  7. James Morris-Lent

    James Morris-Lent Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    900
    Likes Received:
    6,668
    Location:
    United States
    Maybe this narrative accurately conveys this guy's experience - who knows, given the subject matter, it's at least plausible. There probably is some sort of useful point to be extracted from this.

    -But for me, all of this BPS stuff has strong ties to the irrational (aka 'progressive' when used pejoratively) left. Although it's also in an unholy alliance with insurance interests and people trying to reduce spending on benefits, so it's not so easy to classify.
    -In any case the people behind it have enjoyed outsized institutional influence and support - what with setting treatment standards across the world and gaining knighthoods and whatnot. Hardly underdogs.
    -There is a core of damning scientific criticism.
    -Criticism doesn't seem to be coming from any particular political direction - mostly just from people affected in some way. (Hopefully the [reasonable] 'left' picks up the issue more because advocating for people with illnesses and disabilities is part of it's natural role.)
    -To the extent that the campaign against BPS is political, it is because it is fighting against entrenched policies backed by powerful interests. It's a political issue as well as scientific, and it's a very worthy issue.

    It feels great to play victim when you aren't one. It's all the rage now but it looks like the BPS crew figured it out before it really took off.
     
  8. adreno

    adreno Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    413
    Likes Received:
    1,942
    Location:
    Scandinavia
    Their website? What is that?
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2018
    rvallee, ladycatlover, Inara and 6 others like this.
  9. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    33,685
    Likes Received:
    160,484
    Location:
    UK
    Perhaps this demonstrates the problem with so called 'social science' research which is so easily distorted to find what the researcher wants to find, and which, at least in psychology, has a reproducibility crisis.

    I think the whole enterprise of reducing complex psychological and sociological situations to numbers derived from questionnaires is so unrealistic as to be dangerous.
     
  10. Woolie

    Woolie Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,782
    Likes Received:
    19,044
    Linking welfare dependence to personality type. I can't see any problems with that. Now let me get back to my research into the effects of race on IQ.
     
  11. WillowJ

    WillowJ Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    671
    Likes Received:
    2,969
    Does diary have some kind of other meaning in UK?

    To me it means a private book that some people (usually women--men would generally keep a journal, although women might keep a journal, too) keep about their thoughts, personal record of happenings, and so forth.

    I have heard it used especially from UK authors to refer to a book of dates/ one's calendar. But that also is not meeting minutes and study data. And if people are giving conferences, that is often public knowledge and it's not mysterious how the general public would know this.

    Diary would not typically refer to lab notebooks, meeting minutes, and other work-related things which are processed under FOI (or one's entire schedule; law enforcement might ask that if they had a reason to, but I can't see why they would release it to the public, or why anyone would want to ask). You cannot request and receive something under FOI which is not considered public data.

    That's a pretty baffling statement.
     
    adambeyoncelowe, alktipping and James like this.
  12. Trish

    Trish Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    33,685
    Likes Received:
    160,484
    Location:
    UK
    In this context I take it to mean diary of events the person is going to attend for their job, like conferences etc. Certainly not personal journal.

    I take the sentence about FOI to be separate from the diary sentence.
     
  13. Keela Too

    Keela Too Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    965
    Likes Received:
    8,696
    Location:
    Sally Burch - Northern Ireland
    Diary is a book of dates coming up that you need to remember (although can also be a written record of what you did - ie personal stories)

    A journal, to me, is more the lengthy writing type of diary.

    A Calendar - to me is the 12 sheets of paper that hangs on the wall with pretty pictures of Northern Ireland, it's an abbreviated diary!
     
  14. James Morris-Lent

    James Morris-Lent Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    900
    Likes Received:
    6,668
    Location:
    United States
    I'd have to read it and related materials before passing judgment. I think it's fair to be skeptical about this sort of thing given that (a) it's hard to know what psychological/sociological findings are actually legitimate, as @Trish mentioned, and (b) the history of scientific racism, as you alluded to. But there are legitimate questions to ask and important issues at stake, and we could use quality research to guide policy rather than feelings and dispositions. I mean, I'm a big proponent of the 'welfare state' and safety nets and all that, so I want it to work as well as possible for people and stay solvent and such.

    The fact that the author is a blatant connoisseur of self-pity and ad hominem prejudices me against him as a source of good answers, however. I'm not going to read his book, in any case.

    What was your university again? Somebody (definitely not me) will be letting them know that it has come to my, I mean their, attention, that...
     
  15. Jonathan Edwards

    Jonathan Edwards Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    9,311
    Likes Received:
    99,521
    In this quote 'my diary' simply means my schedule - where I am going to be when and what for. I suspect he is referring to the fact that people are mentioning conferences he is posted to talk at or concerts where he might have been seen on the terrace or ... photoshoots with members of the Royal Family?
     
  16. WillowJ

    WillowJ Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    671
    Likes Received:
    2,969
    has this occurred? (sorry, I live under a rock, er, under the bedcovers, much of the time and often don't know current happenings)
     
    ladycatlover and alktipping like this.
  17. Sly Saint

    Sly Saint Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    6,266
    Likes Received:
    51,424
    Location:
    UK
    I posted this quote on another thread but think it appropriate here also:
    "
    Martin J Walker, who has written about other illnesses such as Gulf War Syndrome, which he also
    claims have been inappropriately psychiatrised, describes this process:

    'You get ill, you are accused of being mentally ill, denied effective treatment, then
    when you campaign for ‘real science’, you are accused of terrorising those who do not
    believe in your illness...after all, if your message is that people who say they are
    suffering from ME or CFS are mentally ill, then accusing them of irrational attacks
    adds strength to your case' (Walker 2003: 225)
     
  18. Woolie

    Woolie Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,782
    Likes Received:
    19,044
    My feeling is: if you ask a stupid question you will get a stupid answer. This is a stupid question, because you can't infer causation. Of course people on welfare will respond differently on personality questionnaires than those at the top of their game. And of course, people with psychiatric problems will be overrepresented in the welfare group. And people in the welfare group will, in general, have more deprived backgrounds, be more distressed, and have experienced more early adversity, etc. etc.

    The central problem here is not the politics; its the assumption that personality is an invariant trait that has causal primacy in anything you study. People forget what "personality" actually is - its just a pattern of responding on a bunch of questionnaires, and we choose the questions, based on our current notions of what we think personality is.

    This in fact identical to the reasoning that's been used against PwMEs - they score differently from healthy people on some psyc measure, and the inference is that this feature plays a causal role in their illness.
     
  19. Sean

    Sean Senior Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    3,460
    Likes Received:
    28,910
    The most remarkable thing about Prof. Sir Simon Wessely is his successful decades-long portrayal of himself as both the victim and the hero of the whole shitty farce.

    The truth is that he has profited handsomely from our suffering, while delivering only pain and grief and despair for us in return.

    A quarter century after first becoming acquainted with his work, the callous arrogance and raging narcissism of the man is still breathtaking. :grumpy:
     
    Arnie Pye, Lidia, rvallee and 15 others like this.
  20. James

    James Established Member (Voting Rights)

    Messages:
    89
    Likes Received:
    685
    Lidia, WillowJ, ladycatlover and 7 others like this.

Share This Page