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Tymes Trust - No reported harassment of staff at Bristol University

Discussion in 'PsychoSocial ME/CFS News' started by Liv aka Mrs Sowester, Oct 29, 2017.

  1. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    In a properly chaired scientific debate - which is why I specifically said that - EC would would not have been able to do to DT what she did. The audience would not have been allowed to shout him down, nor EC have been able to rally them to her side. There would have been no bouncers to usher him out the building for no good reason. EC would have had to do what she fears most I suspect - debate real science on a level playing field. I'm not talking about what the media likes to pass off as debates, but the real thing.
     
  2. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Yep. Their bullsh*t-baffles-brains strategy would not work.
     
  3. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    They only win because they chair their own "debates". A proper debate forestalls this.
     
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  4. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    When was the last time you actually saw something like that take place? It seems depressingly rare to me.

    Personally, I think that written debate is probably best for matters like this, but also think that Wessely/White/etc would now struggle to do a good job defending their work. I think that the recent controversy makes it much harder for them to bluff authority.
     
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  5. Skycloud

    Skycloud Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    This idea is wishful thinking because EC wouldn't agree to take part in such a thing just as she doesn't attend the Invest in Me conferences.

    eta or any of the rest of them
     
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  6. Valentijn

    Valentijn Moderator Staff Member

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    The problem is with being able to prepare for dealing with outright lies. If statements made by one party have no basis in reality, there's been no opportunity to fact check their claims. It gives the liar quite an advantage, because the only defense to a new lie is going to be "I don't know what you're talking about", which doesn't look very persuasive.

    What I would like to see is an arbitrator (or panel of them) judging and summarizing a written debate. They get away with avoiding substantial criticism and various logical fallacies in journal comments because those journals simply print what is being said, rather than taking any accountability for analyzing or judging what is said.
     
  7. Wonko

    Wonko Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Nah...we need research to make a lie detector which never gets it wrong.

    Then we can attach it to a pointy stick - if the person connected lies they get the pointy stick, continuously, until the lie detector decides they are telling the truth.

    Of course the questions would need to be carefully chosen but that's a small price to pay.

    Please note I am not suggesting any harm come to anyone, no one would do anything to anyone else. If any harm came to anyone it would be a matter of personal choice for them, do they want to be honest or do they want to be poked by a pointy stick, activated by themselves, entirely their choice.
     
  8. Valentijn

    Valentijn Moderator Staff Member

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    I prefer a trebuchet, with one chance to get it right :emoji_golfer::emoji_dizzy::emoji_dragon:

    We can call it "you lie, you fly" :cool:
     
  9. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    But then we would have perpetual energy, the liar in the oval office lies so much he would never land :woot:

    That is catchy ;)
     
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  10. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Part of my wishful thinking was that in the right circumstances, she would then be exposed as unwilling to engage in a debate on level playing field.
     
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  11. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Agreed. Which was why I asked the question. But I'm guessing I have my answer.
     
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  12. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    There's an old joke that used to do the rounds ...

    "How can you tell if a politician is lying?"

    "You see their lips move"

    The joke is portable.
     
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  13. Skycloud

    Skycloud Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I understand, Barry. I think I'm just not up to wishful thinking today :)
     
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  14. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Maybe we need a wishful thinking thread ;).
     
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  15. Sbag

    Sbag Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    or actually a whole hirse would be great - a live one that poos a lot (which is most of them!)
     
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  16. Sbag

    Sbag Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    Careful - you'll get labelled as aggressive!
     
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  17. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I want to be aggressive... in research, drug development/repurposing and exposing lies :thumbup:
     
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  18. Sbag

    Sbag Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    me too
     
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