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Injecting Methylcobalamin

Discussion in 'Other: Methylation; B12; Glutathione; GcMAF' started by Little Bluestem, Nov 7, 2017.

  1. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I just learned that my doctor prescribe 1mg methylcobalamin once/month for me.

    What dose (in mg) do you use? How often do you inject it?
     
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  2. MErmaid

    MErmaid Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I inject myself weekly, 1 mg, of cyanocobalamin.

    Last year I received a shot in the doctors office and felt no benefit. This year, after adding another Rx to my ME cocktail, I tried again (same brand, same strength). This time I felt slightly better (better sleep, improved mood, and a bit more energy). So I went online and ordered the exact product my doctor had. I would estimate that the weekly shot gains me about a 5% improvement overall.

    I don’t know why your doctor chose methyl over cyano, or why just once monthly? But I hope it helps you feel better (because that’s what really matters)
     
  3. Diwi9

    Diwi9 Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    Subcutaneous injection of 5,000 mcg every three days of methylcobalamin.
     
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  4. MsUnderstood

    MsUnderstood Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    @Little Bluestem The 1mg once/month dose recommended by your physician is quite conservative. My first experience with B12 injections was only a few years post-onset. These were 1 ml injected weekly at my physician's office. Initially they gave me "pep". However, my experience has always been that anything that leads to increased energy without correcting the underlying medical problem encourages me to do more than I can sustain -- hence, a crash.

    The second time the dose was 1 ml once/month, injected at my local pharmacy. Had I perceived benefits, I would have learned to inject myself, as @MErmaid does. However, this second attempt with B12 was shortly before a long-term crash which left me bed bound and unable to visit the pharmacy.

    Apparently, high-dose B12 has been used for ME since the 1950's, although it has only recently been hypothesized that it may be helpful because it is a nitric oxide scavenger. According to Dr. Martin Pall, nitric oxide augments oxidative pathways. Oxidative pathways are known to be augmented in ME ( http://me-pedia.org/wiki/Martin_Pall ), and oxidative damage is increased in ME . According to Doctor Pall, the same process may be occuring in multiple chemical sensitivities. High-dose B12 is also used for other chronic conditions that affect the central nervous system (CNS).

    Some clinicians prefer to use Hydroxy B12, and some Methyl B12. Both penetrate into the CNS, which is considered critical for effectiveness. Doctor Pall's protocol uses sublingual B12, but this may not be effective. Most ME practitioners recommend injected B12.

    @MErmaid , according to my local ME specialist, the Cyanocobolamin you are using (the type commonly given to elderly patients with low B12 levels) should not be used in high doses. She claims it does not increase energy and cognitive function unless there is a B12 deficiency, and also that most ME patients do not have a B12 deficiency. Hence, B12 injections for ME patients are not being used to correct a deficiency. I'm glad to hear it's working for you.

    Rather, the intent of high-dose B12 for ME patients is to decrease nitric oxide synthesis and oxidation in the brain. Methyl and Hydroxy B12 can improve symtoms of ME regardless of serum levels (which will become high as treatment continues).

    The dose recommended by this specialist is 10mg/ml Methyl or Hydroxy B12 X 1 ml given by intramuscular injection as often as 2 - 3 times weekly. Based on this dosing schedule, patients are advised to wait for a month before assessing the effectiveness. So it seems in your case, @Little Bluestem , it may be several months before you'd know if the B12 injections are helpful.

    For those with allergies or chemical sensitivities, it is recommended to request preservative-free B12. I wasn't aware of this during my first attempt with B12 injections, which may explain at least some of the problems I perceived. For my second trial, I did request preservative-free B12, and although I didn't experience benefits, I also had no side effects. However, one must be aware that un-preserved B12 has a shorter shelf life (and it must be refrigerated).

    I hope this is helpful. I'm certainly not an expert, but thought I'd try my first "semi-scientific" post. Perhaps others more knowledgeable can chime in.
     
  5. MErmaid

    MErmaid Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    My ME specialist has been using cyanocobalamin for many years, but offers it only to patients who he feels might respond favorably; and then out of that group only the ones who derive a benefit continue with the protocol. He has 30 years of experience, and tracks my progress monthly. I personally would not trust a doctor that makes a blanket statement about how to treat or not treat ME patients. I am an individual who has worked dilligently with my doctor to design my customized treatment plan. As I mentioned, I derived a 5% benefit, which is minor. But as my treatment plan evolves over time, each incremental improvement, whether big or small, adds up to a sum total. This is the approach I take to wellness, but realize we all have to find our own path.:emoji_relaxed::emoji_pill::emoji_syringe:
     
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  6. Little Bluestem

    Little Bluestem Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    My doctor's prescription is indeed conservative. I am currently using 3.75 mg transdermally each day. Animal experiments with the Australian product, which I do not use, found about 80% absorption. What I am using probably does not do quite as well. I would guess I am getting 2.5 - 3 mg/day. To cut back to 1 mg/month would be a huge setback.

    The injectable comes in single dose bottles that cost over $10. My current regimen is costing 0.50/dose. However, it is a real bother. I would like to be able to inject if I can get a reasonable prescription from my doctor and can afford it. It is to come from a compounding pharmacy, so I assume it is preservative free. But the compounding pharmacy does not take my insurance.
     
  7. MErmaid

    MErmaid Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I purchase Cyanocobalamine online; it’s very affordable. I pay about $1 per injection (plus the small cost for the disposable syringe needle). I get 10 injections per vial.

    Even if you spend a lot at the compounding pharmacy, you may still be allergic to the seal, which you may come in contact with as soon as the syringe needle pokes it. There is another device that helps with this issue.

    I hope it helps you.
     
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  8. Webdog

    Webdog Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The Open Medicine Foundation B12 study a couple years ago was 15mg methylcobalamin injected every other day and 15mg L-methylfolate (MethylPro). As a trial participant, I can't say I saw any benefit.
    After the trial, I switched to sublingual methyl B12 for a while (5mg). Eventually, I stopped the B12/methylfolate completely, in part to help clear up some acne I had developed.

    Too Much Vitamin B12 Linked to Acne
    https://www.livescience.com/51338-vitamin-b12-linked-acne-bacteria.html

    ETA: I should add that I'm heterozygous A1298C and C677T MTHFR.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2017
  9. Inara

    Inara Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Cyanocobalamin, as I have learned, is the synthetic form of B12, i.e. its molecular formula deviates from that of Adenosyl-, Methyl- and Hydroxocobalamin, which are the forms in our body. Yet, it is said the body can change cyanocobalamin into the working molecule.

    Hydroxocob. is the form we take in with food. This is then changed to Adenosyl- or Methylcobalamin, as needed by the body.

    It is said Adenosylcobalamin is the form used in energy metabolism (i.e. production of ATP) and Methylcobalamin is used everywhere where methylation is needed.

    People reported about bad acne with cyanocobalamin. Personally, I always prefer molecules that occurr naturally in the human body.

    My doctor told me injecting 1mg of B12 daily is no problem at all. I stretched that to ca. 2-3 times per week. I use Adenosyl-, Methyl- and Hydroxocobalamin. Of course, I take other B vitamins as well. I inject it subcutaneously.

    I believe, as always, one has to find his way individually. Best wishes!
     
  10. Arnie Pye

    Arnie Pye Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I've never injected B12 but I do supplement with high dose B12 orally, alternating between methylcobalamin and adenosylcobalamin. I found that various things got worse when I first started supplementing - my persistent eczema, my already severe mouth ulcers, and instead of having one or two spots I developed quite severe acne. However, I persisted, and over a few weeks, first my eczema virtually disappeared, then the spots got better and vanished, and finally my mouth ulcers improved. Sadly, the mouth ulcers never disappeared entirely and the B12 has only caused a slight improvement in those. It took about three months for this deterioration and then improvement to happen.

    I'd had eczema on my hands for most of the last 50 years. Since taking high dose B12 it has 98% vanished. The skin on my face is now less spotty than it has been since before puberty.
     
  11. Gingergrrl

    Gingergrrl Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    In case this is helpful for anyone, I cannot tolerate Methyl B-12 or M-Folate in any dose (and my B-12 was super low on blood tests plus I was anemic). I finally found a sublingual/lozenge form of Hydroxo B-12/ Folinic Acid (by "Seeking Health") and it works great. I tolerate it with no side effects and it raised my B-12 and Folate on blood test and I am no longer anemic.
     
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  12. alicec

    alicec Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    There is a significant amount of the hydroxy form in foods, probably as the result of breakdown of the active forms from exposure to light, but there is about as much in the adenosyl form. Some foods have significant amounts of the methyl form. See this paper.

    In the body adenosyl is the predominant form in tissues and methyl is the predominant form in blood.

    AdenosylB12 is the cofactor for methylmalonyl CoA mutase which converts breakdown products of some amino acids, odd chain fatty acids and cholesterol into succinylCoA, which in turn feeds into the Kreb's cycle for energy production.

    MethylB12 is the cofactor for methionine synthase which produces methionine from homocysteine; this in turn produces S-adenosylmethionine, the dominant methyl donor for hundreds of metabolic reactions, as well as feeding into the transsulfuration pathway which leads to synthesis of the master antioxidant glutathione.
     
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  13. MErmaid

    MErmaid Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    That makes sense. I also take NAC which is the precursor to Glutathione.
     
  14. MErmaid

    MErmaid Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It’s excellent you figured out a way to kick anemia.
     
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  15. MErmaid

    MErmaid Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    That’s a nice benefit!
     
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  16. Squeezy

    Squeezy Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    @Arnie Pye Adenosylcobalamin is entirety new to me. How much do you take of that, and the methylcobalamin?

    Thanks.
     
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