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Exercise-induced changes in cerebrospinal fluid miRNAs in Gulf War Illness, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome and sedentary control subjects

Discussion in 'BioMedical ME/CFS Research' started by strategist, Nov 10, 2017.

  1. TiredSam

    TiredSam Moderator Staff Member

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    Perhaps a little bitter or sour sometimes.
     
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  2. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    A piquant sense of humour ;).
     
  3. Luther Blissett

    Luther Blissett Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    If you put
    It will return results with Chronic Fatigue Syndrome in the Page Title. Should narrow things down. :)

    It works for any site, just change the bit after "site:" to the site to search

    Edited to add: That is for searching in a search engine, not an internal site search.
     
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  4. MErmaid

    MErmaid Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    “A chronic and multisymptomatic disorder affecting returning military veterans and civilian workers of the 1990–91 Gulf war.”

    “The United States Congress mandated the National Academies of Science Institute of Medicine to provide nine reports on Gulf War Syndrome since 1998.[17] Aside from the many physical and psychological issues involving any war zone deployment, Gulf War veterans were exposed to a unique mix of hazards not previously experienced during wartime. These included pyridostigmine bromide pills (given to protect troops from the effects of nerve agents), depleted uranium munitions, and anthrax and botulinum vaccines. The oil and smoke that spewed for months from hundreds of burning oil wells presented another exposure hazard not previously encountered in a war zone. Military personnel also had to cope with swarms of insects, requiring the widespread use of pesticides. High-powered microwaves were used to disrupt Iraqi communications, and though it is unknown whether this might have contributed to the syndrome, recent research suggests that safety limits for electromagnetic radiation are too lenient.[18]


    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War_syndrome

    I once had a friend whose brother returned home very ill from the Gulf War. At the time, he was not helped by the VA (Veterans Administratiin), because back then there was no such thing as “Gulf War Illness”. He was told he was a homosexual, his illness was related to being a homosexual, and his symptoms were not related to his service in the Gulf War. Fortunately he was married to a woman who was born in Germany, so they both left the US to reside in Germany, so he could seek medical help. To make a long story short, once in Germany he was properly medically treated and thus became well again.

    So I find it sort of amusing that many years later we have a term called “Gulf War Illness”, and now it’s being studied with ME (to look for similarities?). But looking at the list of chemicals/toxins the soldiers were exposed to, along with microwaves, it’s no surprise some returned very ill. And if my memory serves me correctly, the soldiers were issued chemical hazard suits, but because they were stationed in the desert, it was impractical to wear them. And as I recall the chemical alarm warnings were frequently going off, and after awhile the soldiers ignored the alarms (and thus did not put on their suits).

    Note: Don’t mean to offend anyone, but in 1990/1991 some people in the US were cruel and dismissive toward others deemed as not being heterosexual.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2017
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  5. Andy

    Andy Administrator Staff Member

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    ME Association review of this paper
    PDF download - http://www.meassociation.org.uk/wp-...chemistry’-after-exercise-in-CFS-06.12.17.pdf
     
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  6. duncan

    duncan Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    Brain, mind, depression, bipolar...Why do I find myself so leery of this review?
     
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  7. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    No, the brain is physical. If someone cleaves your brain apart with an axe ... it ain't psychological.
     
  8. duncan

    duncan Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    Well, sure. I appreciate Cartesian Dualism as much as the next person, and I trust on paper so does the BPS crowd. Regardless, it is what they might do with the dichotomy between brain and mind that is troublesome.

    I don't find it a stretch to imagine they could use some of these abnormal brain findings to build upon the platform that what we experience, we experience, but it is not based on any pathogen or immune response, and so can be overcome with corrective behavioral changes and better thinking, and maybe a dollop of psychogenics.

    This effortlessly persistent comparison default by some to depression or bipolar disorder is concerning, especially when brain cancer or Parkinson's or MS are just as relevant without the dangerous references.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2017
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  9. Inara

    Inara Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    What's the aim of this document? It's really a lot.

    Do you have some proofs/hints that Mr. Wessely worked/works for Pentagon?
     
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  10. Valentijn

    Valentijn Moderator Staff Member

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    Not sure about the pentagon, but he's certainly worked with US government agencies in regard to Gulf War Syndrome.
     
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  11. Mithriel

    Mithriel Established Member

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    He also did a study after 9/11 to show that ill effects were psychological, not the result of toxins. It said so on a TV documentary I think. He was chief psychologist or something like that for NATO. The way ME has been treated is very like the ways the CIA are documented to use to discredit ideas. I have always suspected that knighthood.
     
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  12. Inara

    Inara Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Thanks @Valentijn and @Mithriel.

    The knighthood is political, my opinion.

    It's not that I view it as unlikely that he may have worked for the Pentagon, too, it's that I like substance. Your replies give me an idea.

    @duncan, how can you link the ME/GWI study to psycho statements? I don't see your point clearly, although I have a feeling of your meaning.
     
  13. duncan

    duncan Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    History.

    Not so much with miRNA yet, but look what they did with IL-6. It's not BPS for nothing; it seems to me that elements within that school have demonstrated a willingness to take any biological component and fold it to suit their psych purposes.

    I wonder, why give them a ready made springboard like depression - which most of us I would imagine feel is biological in origin - and who knows where they might run with it?

    So...don't give them that springboard.
     
  14. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I'm a software engineer, and my perception of brain and mind is much more prosaic than Cartesian Dualism, which to me feels too ethereal/spiritual. As a very loose modelling, I think of the brain roughly akin to the various microprocessor and programmable logic chips that form part of a computer, and the mind roughly akin to the software and firmware that runs on those chips. The physical brain hosting the software and programmable logic that 'runs' within it; nothing whimsical running without. Needless to say it's just a working analogy that works for me, nothing more.

    But I do take your point, that there are those who will read 'brain' and claim 'mind'. But hopefully there will be enough others who will see how daft that would be.
     
  15. alicec

    alicec Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    You are defaulting to these issues, not the review.

    Are you saying we shouldn't study bio-medical aspects of the brain because results might be twisted by the BPS crowd?
     
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  16. duncan

    duncan Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    No. I'm saying drawing some correlations invite problems which by now we should be familiar with - and about which we should know better.
     
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  17. Inara

    Inara Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    What happened with IL-6? Did the BPS people invent a fairytale about how the psyche or an underlying conflict influences IL-6?
     
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  18. duncan

    duncan Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    @Inara, over the years there have been a number of reports linking oscillating levels of Interleukin 6 with ME/CFS. I think a theory was early on IL-6 was low, but as the disease progressed values climbed. The hope was perhaps we had a workable biomarker.

    However, as I recall, a psych contingent countered by saying IL-6 demonstrated irregular levels in both depression and anxiety, so ME/CFS by extension likely fell on the spectrum of "stress-related" disorders.

    My point was we have already seen how they could manipulate cytokine imbalances to fit their narrative. Perhaps it would be prudent to anticipate something similar here, especially when we potentially provide fodder for their argument. Our's is a community replete with cautionary tales - I am simply recommending learning from them.
     
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  19. Inara

    Inara Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  20. strategist

    strategist Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    Or maybe many cases of anxiety and depression (enough to create a statistical association) are misunderstood physical conditions, and not as claimed, primarily psychological conditions.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
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