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Bizarre sleep pattern

Discussion in 'Sleep Disturbance' started by Dechi, Nov 3, 2017.

  1. Pibee

    Pibee Established Member

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    genetic but nobody in my family had it? i was told by someone who did rituximab --she is pos for 7 celltend antibodies..- that rituximab fixed her delayed sleep.. maybe she is member on s4me, not sure.. so in her case seems just another symptom.. N24 is just when DSPS gets too bad, as you know..

    in peson i know 3 other people who had it, coincidentally they all have chronic infections and autoimmune... MS..seems like when these neuro-immune illnesses go to extreme it's almost inevitable.

    sleep disoder is maybe even bigger obstacle for me to be able to wok full time , than ME/CFS. i dont know...highly likely..
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2017
  2. Pibee

    Pibee Established Member

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    p.s. i've seen very good article on cicadian sleep disorder and purinergic signaling, eATP... all Naviaux stuff.. trying to find it, forgot where i read it
     
  3. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I can tell you that raising PGD2 has no effect on my non 24. And its not hard or expensive to do, its an effect of the niacin flush.
    Can you tell us what this other sleep center is?


    mine either, as i said i don't think mine is genetic, but a ME/CFS treatment will be the ultimate test

    Based on what?

    the ME/CFS is worse for me but non 24 does make almost any job involving other people impossible

    If your referring to the ATP/glymphatic system discovery it is not a sleep control center, its an analogous system to the lymphatic system that works only in the brain to clear waste during sleep.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2017
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  4. alex3619

    alex3619 Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    This is not a guaranteed effect of anything. It requires omega-6 fat substrate, and reasonable levels of glutathione, and is easily blocked.

    The other sleep center was only discovered last year, in the brain stem. We know next to nothing about it. I think it was discussed on this forum.
     
  5. Alvin

    Alvin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Right, can you provide references?

    It hasn't been named yet?
     
  6. alex3619

    alex3619 Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    References? I have looked into this for two and a half decades. Look up any enzymology reference text. D6D and D5D (delta desaturases) are regulated by reduced glutathione status, though other things are needed too. Reduced glutathione is depleted in our brains, probably as a result of oxidative stress. Lipoic acid helps recycle it, and is also needed for pyruvate dehydrogenase, so there might be a link there too. The desaturases are also the primary targets in salicylate sensitivity, salicylates including aspirin inhibit them. Further the prostaglandin D2 has a half life of minutes. The brain has to keep making it, as do mast cells. I am not sure of the exact half life, the last time I looked it up the literature varied and I no longer recall the figures, but it was something like ten to thirty minutes depending on the assay.

    The brain stem sleep region is so new we know almost nothing, as I said. Check Phoenix Rising, I think it was discussed there. I have no references handy. In fact much of my reference data is locked in a corrupt SSD drive and is irrecoverable. This was the second surprising finding in the last couple of years, the other being an atypical lymphatic system in the brain as I think was discussed earlier here. Even with regard to gross anatomy we are still learning about the brain.

    Its worth also looking at African Sleeping Sickness, which is from a parasite that produces large quantities of PGD2 and induces deep sleep.
     
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  7. TrixieStix

    TrixieStix Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    your patterns don't sound as severe as the sleep disorder "N24" (non 24) but it might be worth reading about it just in case you see a worsening in your sleep patterns you described. I have a friend and a cousin who suffer from N24.
     
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  8. Dechi

    Dechi Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Thanks a lot ! I have been reading about that a little bit lately but didn’t realize it was actually a sleep disorder. I will definitely read about it !
     
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  9. TrixieStix

    TrixieStix Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    FYI.... I too disagree with someone's comment that N24 is "just when DSPS gets too bad".

    For some people with N24 it's not only that the time they fall asleep is constantly moving forward, but also that the length of their sleep cycle varies from day to day. For example the 2 loved ones of mine who have it will sleep for 3 days straight then be awake for 3 days straight, and this dramatic circadian disruption just stays in constant crazy flux and is horribly disabling and keeps them from being able to live any kind of "normal" life. To an outsider it probably looks like a mental illness. As poor as my quality of life is I would not trade it for that of someone with N24. (I am diagnosed with DSPD btw)
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2017
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  10. Dechi

    Dechi Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    @TrixieStix What is DSPD ?

    I am sorry about your loved ones, N24 sounds awful... :-(
     
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  11. TrixieStix

    TrixieStix Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    What is Delayed Sleep Phase Disorder?

    Delayed Sleep Phase Disorder (DSPD), also known as Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome (DSPS).

    Does it have other names?

    The official designation according to the current International Classification of Sleep Disorders (ICSD-3, published in 2014) is Delayed Sleep-Wake Phase Disorder. The previous edition (ICSD-2, 2005) called it Circadian Rhythm Sleep Disorder - Delayed Sleep Phase Type. The version before that (ICSD-R, 1997) used the name Delayed Sleep Phase Syndrome, and that has been widely used in the medical literature and in many popular articles and web sites. Delayed Sleep Phase Disorder is now also commonly used, and we use it here. The DSM-5 (2013) refers to it as Circadian Rhythm Sleep-Wake Disorder - Delayed Sleep Phase Type.
     
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  12. Dechi

    Dechi Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Thank you ! Can a polysomnography test detect DSPD or N24 ? If not, what could ?
     
  13. TrixieStix

    TrixieStix Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    In regards to Non-24... Polysomnography is not required for the diagnosis of non-24 per se, as it is the timing rather than the quality of sleep that is primarily impaired (although some patients may show alpha intrusions and reduced delta sleep).

    It is mainly of use in differentiating non-24 from other disorders causing excessive daytime sleepiness such as narcolepsy, idiopathic hyperso
    mnia, or sleep apnea. These disorders also may be comorbid with non-24.

    Most patients with non-24 go undiagnosed for years, and misdiagnosis, particularly of psychiatric disorders, is common.

    http://www.sleepreviewmag.com/2015/05/need-know-non-24/
     
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  14. TrixieStix

    TrixieStix Established Member (Voting Rights)

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    In regards to DSPD/DSPS...

    DSPS is diagnosed based solely on a description of the symptoms and sleep logs. Sometimes a non-invasive wrist-watch-like device called an autograph may be used to confirm rest-activity rhythms. An overnight sleep study (polysomnogram) may be recommended to rule out the presence of any other sleep disorders if the history is suggestive. Sophisticated tests of melatonin or core temperature rhythms are generally reserved for research purposes.
     
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