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A general thread on the PACE trial!

Discussion in 'PsychoSocial ME/CFS Research' started by Esther12, Nov 7, 2017.

  1. Valentijn

    Valentijn Moderator Staff Member

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    The collection of published PACE papers ended up having dozens of co-authors, from what I recall. Any British academic attacking PACE would also likely be attacking a co-worker from their own institution, and risk associating their own institution with the scandal of supporting poor research practices.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2017
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  2. Inara

    Inara Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Hi @Esther12!

    Thanks! Honestly, that makes me feel better. I think and think and think...and always come to the conclusion: It seems unachievable. :) But I agree -

    I never heard about Cochrane before. What kind of standards do they use in order to classify a paper as "scientific" or "evidence based", do you probably know? What was their conclusion with regard to PACE?
     
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  3. Inara

    Inara Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    But an annoying embarrassment... :wtf:
     
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  4. Esther12

    Esther12 Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Cochrane reviews are farmed out to different authors. The PACE trial's Peter White was a co-author of the protocol for the review of exercise therapy currently being conducted, along with lead author Larun, who in an earlier review claimed PACE had a low risk of bias and then failed to engage with submitted comments raising concerns about her work.

    There are lots of lengthy documents about Cochrane's standards available, and people have read them and highlighted a failure to properly impose those standards, but so far nothing seems to have changed. Simon Wessely was heavily involved with the Cochrane group which oversees CFS.
     
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  5. Adrian

    Adrian Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I think it means they don't have sufficient people in the trial to show their expected effect size reliably so they talk about multi-arm stuff where they basically say because CBT and GET are similar we can agregate results.
     
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  6. Inara

    Inara Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    Hi @Esther12, reading your post doesn't increase my trust and confidence in Cochrane. :)

    Thanks for the info!

    It seems to be always the same...no matter which "independent quality evaluation" you choose, there's always some form of influence.
     
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  7. Adrian

    Adrian Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    The Cochrane response to Robert Courtney's comments are very telling. They basically say they will ignore the outcome switching in the PACE trial and rate it highly anyway and also give unconvincing excuses for their own outcome switching.
     
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  8. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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  9. Solstice

    Solstice Established Member

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    I understand it's a sneer at PACE, but let's not.
     
  10. Adrian

    Adrian Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It is but I think it is noticeable that F&M have a huge amount of integrity in how they have handled this especially in comparison to others.
     
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  11. Dolphin

    Dolphin Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    It wasn't a serious suggestion and I'm amazed it is required to point this out.
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2017
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  12. Solstice

    Solstice Established Member

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    I got that, but something about it rubbed me the wrong way. I don't like to see even the vaguest link towards the skechy behaviour of the PACE "scientists", when it comes to good and thorough biomedical research.
     
  13. Barry

    Barry Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    More a wry observation I think.
    :confused:
     
  14. Adrian

    Adrian Senior Member (Voting Rights)

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    I was assuming it related to one of the PACE supporters (and Sharpe) celebrating the Rituximab failure.
     
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  15. Solstice

    Solstice Established Member

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    Allright, then forget I said anything.
     
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